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RegGuheert
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Re: AFV Truck/Commercial Vehicle and (non-BEV) Bus thread

Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:40 am

Volvo to begin production on their electric trucks next year:
Green Car Congress wrote: The 16-tonne GVW Volvo FL Electric features a 185 kW electric motor, maximum power (130 kW continuous output); a two-speed transmission, propeller shaft, rear axle. Max torque from the electric motor is 425 N·m. Max torque on the rear axle is 16 kN·m.

The truck can be outfitted with 2-6 lithium-ion batter packs, totalling 100-300 kWh. AC charging is via the mains grid (22 kW) or DC fast charge via CCS/Combo2 for up to 150 kW.
It appears that Volvo's approach will be to replace the ICE with an electric equivalent. Here is a picture of the electric drive unit for these trucks:

Image
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K miles: Apr 14, 2013, 20K miles (55.7Ah): Aug 7, 2014, 30K miles (52.0Ah): Dec 30, 2015, 40K miles (49.8Ah): Feb 8, 2017, 50K miles (47.2Ah): Dec 7, 2017.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

GRA
Posts: 8682
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: AFV Truck/Commercial Vehicle and (non-BEV) Bus thread

Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:10 pm

Via GCC:
ULEMCo to demonstrate heavy-duty truck converted to run on hydrogen
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/04/20180417-ulemco.html

UK-based ULEMCo will demonstrate a Volvo FH16 heavy-duty truck converted to run on hydrogen. The ULEMCo truck uses hydrogen to power the vehicle using a combustion engine rather than via fuel cells and an electric motor. . . .

ULEMCo believes that using conventional engines and existing truck designs, rather than the full transformation needed for electrification, the time frame to the target of zero carbon emissions can be shortened significantly, at the same time reducing the cost of the change for customers.

ULEMCo has converted many vehicles from diesel to hydrogen dual-fuel, and these are in current active service around the UK. The demonstration vehicle will be the first all-hydrogen example, will have at least 300HP, and with 17kg of hydrogen on board, a range of just less than 300 km (186 miles) unloaded is expected. As hydrogen storage is the only additional hardware, a smaller reduction in payload is experienced than with other low emission approaches, ULEMCo said. . . .
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
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Re: AFV Truck/Commercial Vehicle and (non-BEV) Bus thread

Fri Apr 27, 2018 4:36 pm

Via GCC:
Orange County orders 10 New Flyer hydrogen fuel cell buses
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/04/20180425-octa.html

The Orange County Transportation Authority (OCTA) has awarded New Flyer a contract for 10 Xcelsior hydrogen fuel cell electric, forty-foot, heavy-duty transit buses (10 equivalent units).

OCTA and New Flyer are partners in the Fuel Cell Electric Bus Commercialization Consortium (FCEBCC) project. This project is sponsored by a grant from the California Air Resources Board (CARB) and is supported by the California Climate Investments (CCI) program. . . .

OCTA serves 34 cities and unincorporated areas of Orange County, covering transportation within the state’s third-largest county and supporting nearly 40 million passengers per year.

The new order helps expand the zero-emission footprint of public transportation across California, and adds sustainability to OCTA’s current fleet of just more than 500 buses, which will serve communities throughout Anaheim, Garden Grove, Orange, Santa Ana, and Westminster.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

User avatar
RegGuheert
Posts: 6236
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Re: AFV Truck/Commercial Vehicle and (non-BEV) Bus thread

Wed May 02, 2018 1:01 pm

Electrek reports that Peterbilt has joined the fray of battery-electric trucsk:
Electrek wrote:The truck maker announced a partnership with Meritor and TransPower, who will supply all-electric drivetrain systems for two Peterbilt vehicle platforms.

They will produce the electric powertrains for “12 Peterbilt all-electric Class 8 Model 579 day cab tractors and three Model 520 refuse trucks.”

The trucks will be used in a test program for about one year in order to “prove out the ranges, operating hours and charging requirements of vehicles operating in real-world service conditions alongside conventional diesel-fueled trucks.”
I have to say that this is simply an "also-ran" entry into this space. Here is what I see:

- Tesla starts with a clean slate and says, "How can we build the best Class 8 battery-electric truck possible using our current technology?"
- All other truck companies do this: "Take a truck out back and remove all of the ICE-related components and see if you can partner with someone to replace those parts with some batteries and an electric drivetrain and let's see how far it will go."

Tesla's approach is both proactive and success-oriented. The approach of the other trucking companies is reactive and guaranteed to achieve a marginal result.

I can almost hear the BODs of those companies saying to management, "We want to see your tangible response to this threat from Tesla as soon as possible."

ETA: Green Car Congress also has an article on this topic.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K miles: Apr 14, 2013, 20K miles (55.7Ah): Aug 7, 2014, 30K miles (52.0Ah): Dec 30, 2015, 40K miles (49.8Ah): Feb 8, 2017, 50K miles (47.2Ah): Dec 7, 2017.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

GRA
Posts: 8682
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
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Re: AFV Truck/Commercial Vehicle and (non-BEV) Bus thread

Thu May 03, 2018 4:27 pm

My apologies for the long post. Been busy the past couple of days, so playing catch-up.

Via IEVS:
Anheuser-Busch Orders *800 Fuel Cell Semi Trucks From Nikola
https://insideevs.com/anheuser-busch-orders-800-fuel-cell-semi-trucks-from-nikola/

The Anheuser-Busch brewing corporation announced an order placement for up to 800 hydrogen fuel cell semi-trucks from Nikola Motor Company. The company intends to convert its entire dedicated fleet to renewable power by 2025. The first Nikola trucks will be delivered in 2020 with capability of driving between 500 and 1,200 miles and refilling within 20 minutes.

Anheuser-Busch earlier reserved 40 all-electric Tesla Semis, but with this latest announcement of 800 for Nikola, the shift has focused on FCVs. Guess that the Tesla Semi visit to the hometown of Budweiser in March didn’t help out much.

For us it seems that Anheuser-Busch doesn’t believe in long-haul trucking using only batteries at this stage.

    “Through this agreement Anheuser-Busch aims to convert its entire long-haul dedicated fleet to renewable powered trucks by 2025.

The trucks are expected to cost, on average, around $400,000, according to Reuters. . . .

GCR article on the same subject adds this: https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1116556_budweiser-maker-taps-nikola-for-up-to-800-hydrogen-powered-semi-trucks
[Nikola CEO] Milton said that the cost for each fuel-cell truck would rival $0.90 to $1 per mile traveled, including the truck, fuel, and consumables.

Officials from Anheuser-Busch said their orders from Nikola would be mostly day cabs, or Two models. Nikola builds a sleeper cab called One.

Via GCC:
Agility Fuel Solutions introduces large-capacity hydrogen storage systems for trucking applications
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/05/20180503-agility.html

. . . The ProCab H hydrogen storage systems are lightweight, compact, self-contained modules that mount behind the cab of Class 8 trucks. ProCab H system designs are based on Agility’s widely-used ProCab behind-the-cab CNG fuel system architecture, which has been track tested for a simulated one million miles and validated by multiple OEM test programs.

The ProCab H family is the product of multiple design iterations, including hydrogen storage systems recently used on zero-emission hydrogen trucks made by US Hybrid and Kenworth.

ProCab H systems include 350 bar composite cylinders with fuel capacities of 23.5, 28.2 or 33.9 kg of hydrogen, require only 31 inches of rail space behind the truck cab . . . All systems have fuel management and pressure control equipment needed for fueling and defueling the vehicle. . . .

Agility also plans to introduce next-generation hydrogen storage systems based on large-diameter Type 4 composite cylinders with 700 bar service pressure being developed in partnership with Hexagon Composites. These higher-pressure, higher-capacity hydrogen storage systems will enable longer driving ranges and could be used in regional haul Class 8 trucking applications such as Toyota’s Project Portal.

Also GCC:
Ballard and Hyster-Yale sign supply and collaboration agreement for air-cooled fuel cell stacks for Class 3 lift trucks
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/05/20180501-ballard.html

Ballard Power Systems has signed a Master Supply Agreement (MSA) with Hyster-Yale Group for the supply of minimum annual volumes of Ballard FCgen-1020 air-cooled fuel cell stacks for use in powering Class 3 lift trucks and support on the design of a fuel cell electric propulsion system to power these lift trucks. The MSA runs until 2022. . . .

In 2014 Hyster-Yale’s acquisition of Nuvera activated a strategy to design purpose-built, optimized fuel cell-powered lift trucks, and put in place significant expertise and capabilities for fuel cells. The collaboration with Ballard, Nuvera, and Hyster-Yale will focus on air-cooled stacks for low power applications, complementing the existing Nuvera fuel cell solutions.

Also GCC:
€26M ZEFER project to introduce 180 fuel cell electric vehicles into fleets in Paris, Brussels and London
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/05/20180503-zefer.html

The European ZEFER (Zero Emission Fleet vehicles for European Roll-out) project will deploy large fleets of 60 hydrogen fuel cell electric vehicles in each of three European capitals (Paris, London and Brussels). (One hundred seventy FCEVs will be operated as taxi or private-hire vehicles, and the remaining 10 will be used by the police.)

These vehicles will be used in the applications where hydrogen-fueled vehicles are the most valuable—fleets which drive long distances every day, which need rapid refueling, and which operate in polluted city centers where zero-emission hydrogen vehicles can have the greatest impact on avoiding pollution.

The €26-million (US$32-million) pan-European initiative will introduce the 180 FCEVs into a combination of taxi, private-hire and police fleets. These vehicles will be in regular use each day, creating hydrogen demand from each vehicle roughly four times that from a normal privately-owned car. This will help to ensure high utilization of the early networks of hydrogen fueling stations which are already operating in each city. This improves the economics of operating the stations and hence helps accelerate the commercialization of hydrogen as a zero-emission fuel for Europe’s cities.

The project will gather data and disseminate results to demonstrate the business case for future FCEV adoption and test the performance of cars and infrastructure under high-mileage conditions. . . .

ZEFER is co-funded with €5 million ($6.1 million) from the Fuel Cells and Hydrogen Joint Undertaking (FCH JU), a public-private partnership supporting fuel cell and hydrogen energy technologies in Europe. The 180 FCEVs will be procured from the vehicle manufacturers able to offer hydrogen fuel cell cars in Europe; the first 25 vehicles are being deployed this week in London by Green Tomato Cars.


Also GCC:
Workhorse, Plug Power deliver electric delivery van with fuel cell range extender to Fedex; in standard delivery route
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/05/20180501-fedex.html

. . . The Class-5 EGEN delivery van is built by Workhorse Group and charged by a Plug Power ProGen hydrogen fuel cell system (2 x 10 kW). The vehicle is currently in service at the FedEx facility in Menands, NY. The ProGen-powered electric delivery van is one of the first of its kind to operate in a standard commercial environment and is deployed on a standard delivery route for FedEx.

The vehicle is based on a Workhorse chassis with 80 kWh battery packs and a TM4 traction motor (20 kW, 2100 N·m). (Workhorse currently offers the range-extended EGEN with a 647 cc two-cylinder BMW range-extending engine; total range on that vehicle is 120 miles. The fuel cell project replaces the combustion engine system with a fuel cell system.)

The fuel cell range extended van stores 11.6 kg of hydrogen @ 350 bar in 6 tanks located in the least valuable real estate in the van; the wheel wells were extended to cover the tanks inside. Incremental energy to the batteries added is 165 kWh. The addition of Plug Power’s ProGen fuel cell enables the vehicle range to exceed 160 miles (258 km) per delivery cycle, a 166% increase over standard battery power alone.

To date, the new FCEV has already accumulated more than 3,000 on-road miles in initial tests, and is expected to accumulate more than 27,000 miles of on-road driving time in the first six months.

The vehicle refuels using a Plug Power hydrogen fuel station located in Latham, New York. This fueling station is the first hydrogen fueling station in New York State’s Capital Region and one of the first hydrogen refueling stations on the East Coast for on-road vehicles. The FCEV delivery van is currently fueling and operating through a broad weather spectrum, including rain, snow and cold temperatures.

In addition to the FedEx FCEV delivery van, Plug Power has 20,000 deployed fuel cells with more than than 150 million run hours in mobility applications. . . .

Also GCC:
Robert Allan Ltd. designs new battery-electric pilot boat
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/05/20180501-ral.html

Vancouver, Canada-based naval architecture firm Robert Allan Ltd. has developed a new all-electric pilot boat aimed at service applications in which the run to the ship is 5 nautical miles or less.

The RAlly 1600-E is an aluminum version of its highly successful steel predecessor. . . .

Twin small auxiliary generators give “get home” and range extension capability but are normally not running. Top speed is 20 knots. . . .

This boat is suited for short run applications of 5 nautical miles (NM) or less and where there is time between jobs to recharge the batteries. Pilot boats typically run at or near top speed with the pilot on board, then loiter for some time and may return at a more efficient medium speed. In this mixed-use scenario with a 5 NM run, the RAlly 1600-E can complete a full operation totally on batteries with 30% of nominal battery capacity to spare.

The aluminum boat has the same total weight, power, and speed as the steel prototype. The weight saved in eliminating the diesel engines and their support systems, removing the diesel fuel, and changing to an aluminum hull provides the weight budget for the new electric drive and batteries.

The propulsion motors are 500 kW 2,800 rpm permanent magnet 750 volt AC electric motors controlled by frequency convertors providing a full range of speed. The motors drive through standard ZF or Twin Disc 3:1 reverse/reduction gears to conventional shafting and 840 mm propellers.

The battery system consists of 70 modules of Spear SMAR-11N-224 units providing a capacity of 815 kWh. As required by Class they are arranged in a separate compartment which is located in the middle of the boat between the accommodations and the machinery space.

The batteries are liquid-cooled and the entire space is well-ventilated and fitted with a FirePro fire extinguishing system. The same batteries also power the boat’s normal electrical load of lighting, etc. The entire design is eligible for Class approval such a Lloyd’s, ABS, or Bureau Veritas . . . .

The basic cost of the electric pilot boat will depend on where it is built and what electrical system is chosen. The added capital cost of the electrical propulsion system is offset by virtually eliminating fuel costs and greatly reduced maintenance costs. The payback period is dependent on diesel and electricity costs and number of operating hours per year.


Also GCC:
Efficient Drivetrains announces production release of PowerDrive7000ev for medium- and heavy-duty vehicle applications
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/05/20180501-edi.html

. . . The EDI PowerDrive kit offers OEMs a modular design for integration into existing chassis designs and enables rapid vehicle solution introductions. Electrification kits will include a high-efficiency drivetrain (EDI PowerDrive), vehicle control and telematics software (EDI PowerSuite), and the training and support infrastructure to enable fast time to market.

OEMs are able further customize their vehicle solutions with EDI’s Electric Power Export (Power2E) option—the capability to export a range of power directly from the vehicle for use in disaster recovery, jobsite maintenance, tool operation, and other applications. To accelerate market introductions, EDI is also available to install the powertrain systems and perform vehicle integration as a service for OEMs. . . .

The EDI PowerDrive 7000ev drivetrain will include a base of 100+ mile all-electric driving, with the ability for OEMs to extend range as required by customers.

EDI has confirmed multiple customer contracts with OEM partners this year, with the first programs delivered in 2017. The company’s EDI PowerDrive 7000ev integrated into school bus applications for leading OEMs has been approved for CARB requirements and HVIP incentives. . . .
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

User avatar
RegGuheert
Posts: 6236
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Re: AFV Truck/Commercial Vehicle and (non-BEV) Bus thread

Fri May 04, 2018 9:44 am

GRA wrote:Via IEVS:
Anheuser-Busch Orders *800 Fuel Cell Semi Trucks From Nikola
https://insideevs.com/anheuser-busch-orders-800-fuel-cell-semi-trucks-from-nikola/

The Anheuser-Busch brewing corporation announced an order placement for up to 800 hydrogen fuel cell semi-trucks from Nikola Motor Company. The company intends to convert its entire dedicated fleet to renewable power by 2025. The first Nikola trucks will be delivered in 2020 with capability of driving between 500 and 1,200 miles and refilling within 20 minutes.

Anheuser-Busch earlier reserved 40 all-electric Tesla Semis, but with this latest announcement of 800 for Nikola, the shift has focused on FCVs. Guess that the Tesla Semi visit to the hometown of Budweiser in March didn’t help out much.

For us it seems that Anheuser-Busch doesn’t believe in long-haul trucking using only batteries at this stage.

    “Through this agreement Anheuser-Busch aims to convert its entire long-haul dedicated fleet to renewable powered trucks by 2025.

The trucks are expected to cost, on average, around $400,000, according to Reuters. . . .

GCR article on the same subject adds this: https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1116556_budweiser-maker-taps-nikola-for-up-to-800-hydrogen-powered-semi-trucks
[Nikola CEO] Milton said that the cost for each fuel-cell truck would rival $0.90 to $1 per mile traveled, including the truck, fuel, and consumables.

Officials from Anheuser-Busch said their orders from Nikola would be mostly day cabs, or Two models. Nikola builds a sleeper cab called One.
Tesla charges a non-trivial reservation fee to reserve each one of its trucks. Nikola started off with a trivial fee and then dropped it to zero.

- "How many trucks would you like to reserve?"
- "How much is the reservation fee?"
- "Zero dollars, up front."
- "O.K. I'll take 1000 reservations, please."

Let's be patently clear: NO ONE is purchasing H2 FCV trucks for $400,000 each. But I can see leasing them for $1.00/mi. if Nikola throws in the vehicle, the fuel and the maintenance. If they put 8,000 miles on their trucks each month, then that comes to $8,000/month, all-in. Why not? Since it will cost nearly four times that JUST FOR THE FUEL for the truck.

But even if Nikola has someone funding this money-losing venture, there is the simple problem of building those fuel cells. Toyota is only able to manufacture enough fuel cells to build about 150 Mirais each month in the U.S. Let's estimate that a Class 8 truck requires a fuel cell about 5X the power of the one in a Toyota Mirai. If that is the case, Nikola should be able to crank out 360 of these trucks each YEAR, max.

Fortunately, we won't see many (or any) of these environmental nightmares on our streets anytime soon.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K miles: Apr 14, 2013, 20K miles (55.7Ah): Aug 7, 2014, 30K miles (52.0Ah): Dec 30, 2015, 40K miles (49.8Ah): Feb 8, 2017, 50K miles (47.2Ah): Dec 7, 2017.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

GRA
Posts: 8682
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Re: AFV Truck/Commercial Vehicle and (non-BEV) Bus thread

Fri May 04, 2018 4:51 pm

RegGuheert wrote:But even if Nikola has someone funding this money-losing venture, there is the simple problem of building those fuel cells. Toyota is only able to manufacture enough fuel cells to build about 150 Mirais each month in the U.S. Let's estimate that a Class 8 truck requires a fuel cell about 5X the power of the one in a Toyota Mirai. If that is the case, Nikola should be able to crank out 360 of these trucks each YEAR, max.

I think that overstates the stack requirement considerably. Here's the spec for Toyota's Class 8 tractor for port drayage, from GCC:
The Project Portal platform is designed to provide the target performance required to support port drayage operations. The truck generates more than 670 hp and 1325 lb-ft (1796 N·m) of torque from two Mirai fuel cell stacks and a 12 kWh battery—a relatively small battery to support Class-8 load operations.

There is almost certainly a difference in the sustained vs. burst power requirement in long haul vs. port drayage ops, so perhaps they'd need the equivalent of three or four Mirai stacks. OTOH, as the rollout will be over time, maybe Anheuser-Busch will put them on the routes most suitable for them initially, and then as higher power density stacks emerge and stack production ramps up over time, start adding more mountainous routes. I expect that the brewery in Fairfield, Ca. may get some early, as it's flat along I-80/680/780 into the Bay Area, and they can also distribute to the entire Central Valley as well with the equivalent of two Mirai stacks as above.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 8682
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
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Re: AFV Truck/Commercial Vehicle and (non-BEV) Bus thread

Sun May 06, 2018 3:16 pm

Via GCC:
BYD, US Hybrid partner on fuel-cell range-extended electric bus for Hawaii
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/05/20180505-byd.html

BYD is partnering with US Hybrid Corporation to develop a hydrogen-fuel-cell range-extended battery-electric bus. The bus will utilize BYD’s battery-electric platform, integrating hydrogen fuel cell technology to eliminate operational dependency on charging.

The bus will serve Honolulu’s Daniel K. Inouye International Airport, one of the busiest airports in the United States with more than 21 million passengers per year. . . .

Robert’s Hawaii, the state’s largest employee-owned tour and transportation company, will serve as the bus operator, shuttling passengers between the airport’s terminal and car rental facility. . . .

Integrated at US Hybrid’s Honolulu facility, the 25 passenger shuttle bus utilizes a 30 kW fuel cell fueled by a 20 kg hydrogen storage and delivery system. The fuel cell and 28 kWh lithium-ion battery power the vehicle’s 200 kW powertrain, air conditioning, and auxiliary systems. Onboard batteries are recharged by regenerative braking.

Apparently BYD's not locked into BEVs exclusively.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

WetEV
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Re: AFV Truck/Commercial Vehicle and (non-BEV) Bus thread

Sun May 06, 2018 3:24 pm

GRA wrote:will put them on the routes most suitable for them initially


Assumption being made that there are suitable routes for fuel celled trucks.

What if there are no suitable routes? Then what?
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red

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Re: AFV Truck/Commercial Vehicle and (non-BEV) Bus thread

Sun May 06, 2018 3:35 pm

WetEV wrote:
GRA wrote:will put them on the routes most suitable for them initially


Assumption being made that there are suitable routes for fuel celled trucks.

What if there are no suitable routes? Then what?

Of course there are suitable routes - I listed some. Actually, the first routes they are used on will be determined by where the fueling infrastructure is built. I did have a look at the Nikola specs again, and the stacks will be 300+kW (continuous), possibly three 100kW Power Cell S3s, with a 320 kWh battery pack and peak output of "more than 1,000 hp (746 kW) and 2,000 lb-ft (2,712 N·m) of torque." Those peak numbers are mainly of use in acceleration, and I suppose long sustained climbs could be an issue if they plan to use them to cross the Rockies, Sierras, or Cascades, much as was the case with the initial version of the i3 Rex without Hold mode. We'll just have to see.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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