smkettner
Posts: 7171
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:13 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Feb 2014
Location: Orange County, CA

Re: Jaguar I-PACE BESUV available 2018

Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:19 pm

EatsShootsandLeafs wrote:If you're at all confused and missed the slight of hand, it is explained here:
https://electrek.co/2018/03/01/jaguar-i ... ace-video/

I think Jaguar is better than this and obviously a number of people were "tricked".
No I do not buy that argument.
It was clearly said the P100 would be faster but cost twice as much so no point in comparing.
Very clearly stated it was a standard 100D.

Regardless I would have the Jaguar over the X any day.
1 bar lost at 21,451 miles, 16 months.
2 bar lost at 35,339 miles, 25 months.
LEAF traded at 45,400 miles for a RAV4-EV
I-Pace on order for end of 2018 delivery

smkettner
Posts: 7171
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:13 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Feb 2014
Location: Orange County, CA

Re: Jaguar I-PACE BESUV available 2018

Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:23 pm

EatsShootsandLeafs wrote:
palmermd wrote:
its not a $70k jag. go to the online configurator. the options adders are way worse than Tesla. The car shown racing is likely about $85k-$90k. The $70k is like the $35k Model 3. In fact even worse. Anyone willing to pay $70k for a car will end up with $75-$80k if they just put the most basic options into the car, and most will be closer to $90k. Just go with a basic Model X. It will also be able to replace your daily driver and the winter vehicle.

I tried configuring days ago and no prices.

Now they have prices.

The base $70k option doesn't even have adaptive cruise. GTFO. For $70k no adaptive cruise? In 2018? You also need the $86k variant to have dimming side mirrors and a heated steering wheel. I can't tell for sure but it appears that the base version's "Luxtec Sport Seats" are not even leather.

Starting to think this is just a compliance car after all.

For $25k less than the "first edition" of this thing you could buy a Volvo XC60 T8 plug-in Hybrid with 400 horsepower and more options than this ipace has. Bigger also, and frankly looks better.
I went through the options and selected two minor items totaling $450. I think I could enjoy the base model just fine.

Really surprised me that the fabric seats were more than leather.
1 bar lost at 21,451 miles, 16 months.
2 bar lost at 35,339 miles, 25 months.
LEAF traded at 45,400 miles for a RAV4-EV
I-Pace on order for end of 2018 delivery

sparky
Posts: 710
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:55 am
Delivery Date: 08 Jan 2011
Location: SoCal

Re: Jaguar I-PACE BESUV available 2018

Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:01 pm

smkettner wrote:Regardless I would have the Jaguar over the X any day.
Can't agree without haven't driven the I-Pace. But I would choose it over any ICE CUV, SUV or sedan. I wish we'd all get off this I-Pace vs Model X divertissment. It's useful only for helping to sell more oil burning Audis, Mercedes, BMWs, Lexus', etc.

EatsShootsandLeafs
Posts: 505
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:59 am
Delivery Date: 24 Aug 2012

Re: Jaguar I-PACE BESUV available 2018

Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:15 am

smkettner wrote:
EatsShootsandLeafs wrote:If you're at all confused and missed the slight of hand, it is explained here:
https://electrek.co/2018/03/01/jaguar-i ... ace-video/

I think Jaguar is better than this and obviously a number of people were "tricked".
No I do not buy that argument.
It was clearly said the P100 would be faster but cost twice as much so no point in comparing.
Very clearly stated it was a standard 100D.

Regardless I would have the Jaguar over the X any day.
All I can say is what I've already said but I will reiterate that multiple people had the same impression of this video as I did. We found it deceptive.

As for the off-roading capabilities of the X, the i-pace, the BMW X5, any any other expensive SUV, anybody pretending these are used off road by more than, say, 1/200 people buying them is smoking crack. Stop it. These things are all staying on paved roads, all the time. Maybe they get used on gravel once in a blue moon.

edatoakrun
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Re: Jaguar I-PACE BESUV available 2018

Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:37 pm

Still no EPA range for the I-Pace, AFAIK, but I have seen the NEDC (old euro) range reported several places:

JAGUAR I-PACE VS TESLA MODEL X 75D: HOW DO THEY COMPARE?
...The I-Pace does a claimed 298 WLTP miles, which is 336 NEDC miles. The Model X 75D does a claimed 259 NEDC miles, so the Jag wins somewhat comfortably...

https://drivetribe.com/p/jaguar-i-pace- ... IhHRO2nJIg

To compare the I-pace's NEDC range to TSLA vehicles' NEDC ranges with similar battery capacities, the I-Pace's reported 336 miles is ~541 km (reported elsewhere as 543 km).

Tesla Model X 90D 488 km

Tesla Model S 90D 557 km

Tesla Model 3 Long Range 592 km

https://evtripping.com/faq/cars/

edatoakrun wrote:...
GRA wrote:
edatoakrun wrote:It should be discussed, on another thread, why the WTLP ranges for some BEV manufacturers report substantially identical ranges on both the EPA and WTLP test cycles, and why other BEV manufactures report ~20% lower range to the EPA, than they do for the WLTP.

Don't need another thread...

Seems pointless to me to try to discuss on the I-PACE thread as long as the EPA range for the I-PACE remains unknown...

GRA wrote:...I imagine it's due to weight and drag differences between cars, and the relative weighting of the different cycles.

Imagine whatever you like, but the reported results for the few BEVs with both ratings seem to me to show no rational relationship to the factors you mention.
no condition is permanent

GRA
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Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Jaguar I-PACE BESUV available 2018

Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:30 pm

EatsShootsandLeafs wrote:As for the off-roading capabilities of the X, the i-pace, the BMW X5, any any other expensive SUV, anybody pretending these are used off road by more than, say, 1/200 people buying them is smoking crack. Stop it. These things are all staying on paved roads, all the time. Maybe they get used on gravel once in a blue moon.

Dirt roads sometimes too, but definitely not jeep trails. FTM, the % of people who buy vehicles with true off-road capability who actually use them for that probably isn't much higher than the 1/200 you guesstimate above. MY friend's 4Runner has been put in 4H (never mind 4L or locking the hubs) exactly once in its 17 year lifetime, to exit a muddy parking lot, but it's been hauling around all that excess drivetrain weight plus front and rear brush guards and skid plate all those years.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

edatoakrun
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Re: Jaguar I-PACE BESUV available 2018

Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:03 pm

Informed speculation bringing together multiple sources, definitely worth reading, IMO:

Jaguar and Chevy have LG in common

BY JEFF NISEWANGER on MARCH 9, 2018 • ( 0 )

The Jaguar I-PACE is a swanky new all-electric SUV with a generous wheelbase, a large 90,000 watt-hour battery pack and a $70,000 starting price. The Chevrolet Bolt EV is a small hatchback wagon with a 60 kilowatt-hour pack and a rather basic interior that starts at around $37,000 before rebates and credits.

Although these vehicles come from different makers and are targeted at different customers they appear to share similar battery cells within liquid-cooled packs that ride underneath the floor as a structural part of the vehicle unibody...

Wolfgang Ziebart, Jaguar’s Technical Design Director, stated in a 2017 interview with Automotive News said the I-PACE concept contained cells which are 58 Ah. Jaguar has also said that the peak voltage of the pack when fully charged is kept just under 450V. Higher pack voltages can allow for somewhat quicker charging when using present generation fast chargers that are current limited to 125A.

With 3.7V as the nominal voltage per cell the 108 cells in series would be a nominal 399.6V. When a battery is charged the voltage rises and such a pack could be a bit over the 450V top limit of the stated I-PACE design when full. GM has documented that the Bolt EV’s nominal pack voltage is 350V and with 96 cells in series that works out to 3.65V for each cell group. Bolt EV owners have reported pack voltages between 395V and 400V when fully charged using tools connected to the car’s OBD II internal vehicle monitoring port. This, together with the conflicting voltage claims of 3.6V and 3.7V on the Chinese commerce sites, suggest 3.65V as a realistic nominal cell voltage resulting in either 212 Wh of energy capacity at 58Ah or 219 Wh at 60 Ah.

This would be about 91.5 kWh assuming 58 Ah cells for the I-PACE...

https://electricrevs.com/2018/03/09/jag ... in-common/

1,000 cycles (to 80% remaining DOD) shown in one of the spec charts, x 298 mile WLTP range suggests I-PACE pack life should only be of concern to those with the most serious cases of capacity anxiety...
no condition is permanent

GRA
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Re: Jaguar I-PACE BESUV available 2018

Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:22 pm

Via ABG:
Jaguar I-Pace vs. Tesla Model X and Model S: How they compare on paper
https://www.autoblog.com/2018/03/08/jaguar-i-pace-vs-tesla-model-x-s-comparison/

Vs. X/S75Ds. One thing that really stands out is that while the I-Pace is a considerably smaller and lighter car than the Model X (the S is bigger, and only slightly heavier), its predicted EPA range of 240 miles from a battery pack that's 20% larger than the Teslas is only 3 miles more than the X, and 19 less than the S. The extra power and torque would appear to be killing the range. As the article notes where it really has an advantage is on price compared to the X, especially once Tesla hits 200k. IMO they really need the EPA range to be significantly better than the X75D. We'll just have to wait for the official EPA number to see if it is.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

edatoakrun
Posts: 5222
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:33 am
Delivery Date: 15 May 2011
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Re: Jaguar I-PACE BESUV available 2018

Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:37 pm

I-pace owner's manual available.

Most interesting reveal, that a 320 PS variant is planned:

http://www.ownerinfo.jaguar.com/documen ... c/G2172331

Same battery pack, and only~17 kg lighter, but presumably being developed for higher efficiency and lower cost.

http://www.ownerinfo.jaguar.com/documen ... c/G2164447

BTW, note that the GVW is about 100 LBS short of qualifying for the Hummer Deduction.

So, as of now, it looks like if you claim business use and want the really big money from Uncle Sam to help buy your BEV, you will still have to buy a Tesla X, to get the 100% deduction.

Of course, Jaguar could probably tweek the USA I-pace's GVWR, if it wants to...
no condition is permanent

sparky
Posts: 710
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:55 am
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Location: SoCal

Re: Jaguar I-PACE BESUV available 2018

Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:12 pm

This poster gave a little write-up from Geneva Auto Show:

...The two main reasons I've never bitten the bullet and bought a Tesla is (a) the cost - thanks to Brexit and the plummeting £, it's now a really expensive car in the UK (£108K for a reasonably specced 7-seat X100D with premium, AP & FSD) and (b) the minimalistic, austere interior....
...I was really wanting to like the iPace. I expected it to tick all the boxes re a relatively sumptuous interior compared with a Tesla, and to be comfortable and roomy without being quite so enormous on the outside (MS and MX are both very large cars in the European context).
However, I was very disappointed....


I am still looking forward to seeing / driving this Jag EV.

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/posts/2612450/

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