palmermd
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Re: Jaguar I-PACE BESUV available 2018

Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:15 pm

edatoakrun wrote:The ~$70k Jag handily beat the ~$80k X and the (identified clearly three times in the video, X 100 D) <$100k X from zero-to-60-to-zero and now the sore losers are whining that Jaguar didn't show it tested against the ~$150,000 version of the X.

EatsShootsandLeafs wrote:...I was very disappointed to see Jaguar deceive in their Jaguar vs X, video, though. If you haven't seen the drag race, let me just remind you that the ipace has a 0-60 of 4.5 and the Tesla P100D has a 0-60 of 2.9 seconds. Now watch the video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fErFiWjoeCQ

If you're at all confused and missed the slight of hand, it is explained here:
https://electrek.co/2018/03/01/jaguar-i ... ace-video/

I think Jaguar is better than this and obviously a number of people were "tricked".


its not a $70k jag. go to the online configurator. the options adders are way worse than Tesla. The car shown racing is likely about $85k-$90k. The $70k is like the $35k Model 3. In fact even worse. Anyone willing to pay $70k for a car will end up with $75-$80k if they just put the most basic options into the car, and most will be closer to $90k. Just go with a basic Model X. It will also be able to replace your daily driver and the winter vehicle.
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edatoakrun
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Re: Jaguar I-PACE BESUV available 2018

Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:44 pm

palmermd wrote:... go with a basic Model X. It will also be able to replace your daily driver and the winter vehicle.

I assume you're joking?

I doubt an X would make it up my driveway after a light snow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ie79Jk9Ob2s

On the bright side, if you high-center your X on a rock, the flaming TSLA battery pack might keep you warm for a while...
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EatsShootsandLeafs
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Re: Jaguar I-PACE BESUV available 2018

Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:07 pm

palmermd wrote:
its not a $70k jag. go to the online configurator. the options adders are way worse than Tesla. The car shown racing is likely about $85k-$90k. The $70k is like the $35k Model 3. In fact even worse. Anyone willing to pay $70k for a car will end up with $75-$80k if they just put the most basic options into the car, and most will be closer to $90k. Just go with a basic Model X. It will also be able to replace your daily driver and the winter vehicle.

I tried configuring days ago and no prices.

Now they have prices.

The base $70k option doesn't even have adaptive cruise. GTFO. For $70k no adaptive cruise? In 2018? You also need the $86k variant to have dimming side mirrors and a heated steering wheel. I can't tell for sure but it appears that the base version's "Luxtec Sport Seats" are not even leather.

Starting to think this is just a compliance car after all.

For $25k less than the "first edition" of this thing you could buy a Volvo XC60 T8 plug-in Hybrid with 400 horsepower and more options than this ipace has. Bigger also, and frankly looks better.
Last edited by EatsShootsandLeafs on Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.

EatsShootsandLeafs
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Re: Jaguar I-PACE BESUV available 2018

Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:12 pm

edatoakrun wrote:
palmermd wrote:... go with a basic Model X. It will also be able to replace your daily driver and the winter vehicle.

I assume you're joking?

I doubt an X would make it up my driveway after a light snow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ie79Jk9Ob2s

On the bright side, if you high-center your X on a rock, the flaming TSLA battery pack might keep you warm for a while...
I bet the ipace would crush that offroad test :roll:

Here's an X causing a toyota land cruiser to roll over and go to sleep.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pcn01JPAnpo

I actually want to see some other brands come out with good EVs. I am probably going to cancel my model 3 reservation because of Tesla's bullsh*t rollout. But that doesn't change the fact I will call a spade a spade and for the price this ipace is looking unimpressive. I'd take a Model S all day before this thing, and the S would smack it upside the head in any metric other than being very slightly less capable with luggage capacity. I think it's a stretch comparing a 2 row "crossover" to an X, which has three rows.

GRA
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Re: Jaguar I-PACE BESUV available 2018

Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:28 pm

I'd think it's obvious that neither the X or I-Pace are designed for serious off-roading. They are AWD CUVs, and as such they should be fine on plowed roads, or unplowed roads which have say 6" or less of snow on them, or reasonably graded unpaved roads, which is exactly what the people who buy them use them for. My Forester's the same; I've never suffered under the delusion that it was designed to handle the Rubicon Trail, but summer or winter it gets me to trailheads or up/down driveways with a full load of gear just fine.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

edatoakrun
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Re: Jaguar I-PACE BESUV available 2018

Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:46 pm

GRA wrote:I'd think it's obvious that neither the X or I-Pace are designed for serious off-roading...

With close to 8" of ground clearance and very short overhangs, the I-PACE is obviously going to be capable of travel over far more challenging surfaces than an X, or your forester.

edatoakrun wrote:The one factor that has me remain a little bit interested in the I-Pace is that it is the first BEV at any price, that could replace both my daily driver and my off-pavement/Winter 4wd:

...Height-adjustable air suspension drops the I-Pace 1.6 inches from the standard setting at a stop for easy passenger entry and exit, lowers by 0.4 inch at speeds above 65 mph to further reduce drag, and can raise it 2.0 inches for off-road work. Hoban says the I-Pace can wade through water almost 20 inches deep. “Our BEV has a real depth of character,” he says. “It’s a real SUV with sports car characteristics.”...

http://www.motortrend.com/news/2019-jag ... -review/...


No, the I-Pace not intended to be an electric Land Rover, but that's coming soon...
Last edited by edatoakrun on Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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sparky
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Re: Jaguar I-PACE BESUV available 2018

Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:49 pm

This breast-beating is silly.
One of the things I admire about Tesla is they stay pretty true to their mission in all things marketing.
Because they want to advance sustainable transport, it's very unlikely we'll see Tesla do a stunt like Jag; throw shade on another EV. Sure, Tesla will drag race an ICE car while towing the same ICE car because that serves the mission.
I'll be curious to see if this was a one-off by JLR marketing or part of a zero-sum strategy by Jaguar to avoid diminishing it's own ICE sales. If it's more than a brief effort to attract attention by having a Tesla in the headline then, I'm pretty down on Jag and those that run the show there because they just don't get it.

From what I've seen, the I-Pace is a great first effort. Better than we've seen from anyone besides Tesla so far, Tesla does extremely well competing for sales against ICE vehicles of the same class. If I-Pace is a Tesla competitor then it's also an F-Pace, Audi Volvo, Daimler competitor.
The proper drag race is between the I-Pace and an Audi A5,Q5, BMW X3,X5 5-series and even JLRs own Land Rover Velar (or whatever).
In fact, at my local JLR dealer I intend to test drive both the Velar and I-Pace back to back.

edatoakrun
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Re: Jaguar I-PACE BESUV available 2018

Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:02 pm

sparky wrote:...I'll be curious to see if this was a one-off by JLR...

It's not.

edatoakrun wrote:New Jaguar XJ BEV to launch at end of 2018, Road Rover BEV in 2019?

JLR heads considerably upmarket from the I-Pace, for its next BEV launches.

New Road Rover model to launch in 2019

New Land Rover model line will kick off with an electric-powered XJ-sized luxury vehicle


Jaguar Land Rover (JLR) will stun the automotive world by launching a new model line, the Road Rover, before the end of the decade, Autocar can reveal.

The first production vehicle will be a premium all-electric model, aimed primarily at markets such as California in the US and China.

The first Road Rover is understood to be a Mercedes-Benz S-Class rival in terms of outright luxury and interior craftsmanship but with some 'all-terrain' capability. The car will also be tuned for impressive on-road dynamic performance, taking advantage of the potential delivered by electric motors.

The car could make its public debut at the Los Angeles motor show in late 2019, with sales starting soon after. Prices are expected to be pegged at around £90,000 for the top-line versions.

...Autocar understands that the first Road Rover model is being developed in parallel with the next-generation XJ. The underlying structure for both of these vehicles is a new-generation aluminium architecture that can accommodate both battery packs and piston engines.

It's thought that the new XJ and the Road Rover will both be pure-electric vehicles with twin electric motors and on-demand all-wheel drive...

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/indu ... aunch-2019

edit title, 1/22/18

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=24644&hilit=jaguar

edatoakrun wrote:Next Jaguar F-Type to go all-electric... as early as 2021 or 2022.

Assuming this story holds true, it definitely needs its own thread.

Glad to see Jaguar is one of the growing number of manufacturers that realize there is no room in its cars for an ICE drive-train.

Next Jaguar F-Type to go all-electric

IN A RADICAL move, Jaguar’s iconic two-door sports car will soon do without an engine.

A top-secret project currently underway at the brand’s design and engineering centre in Gaydon will see petrol engines dropped altogether for the radical all-electric Jaguar F-Type replacement due as early as 2021 or 2022.

Despite the lack of internal combustion, the futuristic Jaguar two-door sports car will be the fastest car ever to wear the leaper badge courtesy of electric motors and a bespoke new architecture tailored to take advantage of the design freedoms offered when a traditional drivetrain is not part of the equation...

It’s that promise that also prompted the board-level decision to scrap traditional drivetrains altogether for a next-gen sports car, in the process sidestepping the halfway-house trend towards hybrid propulsion...

Entry-level cars will stick with a rear-drive setup, while more expensive models will run electric motors at both ends, delivering drive to front and rear wheels.

It’s the AWD version that aims to reset the two-seater performance benchmark for Jaguar, with early internal targets nominating a sub-3.0 second 0-100km/h time...

Key to the design will be new generation lithium-ion batteries, currently under development in conjunction with the University of Warwick. The batteries promise almost double the energy density of current automotive cells, so as well as a 500km-plus range and fast charging capability, they will be significantly smaller and lighter than the batteries we
know today...

https://www.wheelsmag.com.au/news/1712/ ... l-electric

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=25085&hilit=jaguar
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sparky
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Re: Jaguar I-PACE BESUV available 2018

Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:20 pm

edatoakrun wrote:
sparky wrote:...I'll be curious to see if this was a one-off by JLR...

It's not.
....
By "one-off" I meant a one-off marketing stunt. Not a one-off vehicle. It's clear Jag has to go EV to stay relevant. They acknowledged as much in the I-Pace focus groups I participated in. Some of the Jag owners were hesitant about the shift but most all in the room coveted the Model X sitting at the far end, close to the I-Pace.

GRA
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Re: Jaguar I-PACE BESUV available 2018

Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:35 pm

edatoakrun wrote:
GRA wrote:I'd think it's obvious that neither the X or I-Pace are designed for serious off-roading...

With close to 8" of ground clearance and very short overhangs, the I-PACE is obviously going to be capable of travel over far more challenging surfaces than an X, or your forester.

Oh really?

    I-Pace / 2003 Forester XS
Length OA: 184.3" / 175.2" -9.1"
OA Width: 84.2" / 68.3" -15.9"
Height: 61.6: / 62.6 +1.0"
Min. Grd Clearance: 5.6" / 7.5" +1.9"
Wheelbase: 117.7" / 99.2" -18.5"
Turning circle: 39.3'/ 34.8' -4.5'

http://www.cars101.com/subaru/forester/forester2003.html and https://www.auto123.com/en/new-cars/technical-specs/subaru/forester/2003/base/25-x/ the latter for the OA width.

https://www.jaguar.com/jaguar-range/i-pace/specifications/index.html

ISTR seeing approach/departure angles for my Forester somewhere (maybe in the owner's manual) but don't have that handy, and can't find it online for it or the Jag, although I did find some info comparing the 2016 Forester and Outback at https://www.reddit.com/r/subaru/comments/52qnfu/why_does_a_foresters_angles_make_it_better_than/, not that that's relevant to my 2003 or the I-Pace.

As you can see, the Forester beats the Jag in every off-road relevant dimensional category except height (with approach/departure angles unknown), but while I chose it over the Outback partly for its shorter length and better turning circle (for making those multi-point U-turns when the 1-lane road ends and you don't want to back 1/2 mile) as well as it being IIRR 200 lb. lighter, that still doesn't make it a Jeep, Land Rover, Land Cruiser. G-class or (getting really obscure here, but I've seen a few) Pinzgauer. The lack of a low range and locking hubs/differentials as well as much too limited ground clearance precludes that.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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