edatoakrun
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"The challenge is to make an electric car do something that gasoline proportions and design can never do."

Sat Oct 08, 2016 9:41 am

I'm disappointed that we still must drive BEVs that in terms of design are little more than clumsy imitations of ICEVs.

While this new Merc probably fails the test (IMO) at least there is some evidence in statements by designers that they understand the opportunity.

Mercedes gives itself an electric makeover

When Karl Benz built the first gasoline-powered automobile in 1885, it looked like a horse-drawn carriage without the horses. It would take more than three decades for the shape of vehicles to catch up to the new way of propelling them forward.

Mercedes-Benz design chief Gorden Wagener says electric motors could similarly reshape the way cars look. "The architecture is going to change fundamentally," Wagener says.

At the Paris auto show on Sept. 29, Wagener unveiled the Generation EQ concept, an electric SUV with a range of roughly 480 km (300 miles) as part of a lineup Mercedes will market under a new subbrand, EQ. The first model -- which Mercedes says will be priced to compete with similar cars with traditional engines -- will arrive in 2019...

Standout styling too has not always succeeded. BMW created a new look for its i3 electric city car in 2013, but the quirky design was a factor in the tepid response from buyers. The Model S from Tesla Motors -- with a price tag that can top $110,000 -- has been more successful, last year outselling the $96,600 Mercedes S class in the U.S. But it looks pretty much like other luxury sedans.

"Soon, somebody may take the 'bold pill,' and something completely unique and fabulous will come out," says Howard Guy of Design Q, an automotive design studio that’s worked with Jaguar, Aston Martin, and Ferrari. "The challenge is to make an electric car do something that gasoline proportions and design can never do."...

http://www.autonews.com/article/2016100 ... c-makeover
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DanCar
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Re: "The challenge is to make an electric car do something that gasoline proportions and design can never do."

Sat Oct 08, 2016 9:55 am

What gasoline can't do:
1. Ludicrous mode
2. Breath clean air around your car, while it is running
3. Stop sucking in carcinogens at the gas station
4. Stop feeding the terrorists
5. Few moving parts means less maintenance
https://plus.google.com/u/1/+DanielCard ... HZygJpydsz
6. Save time by plugging in at home
7. Quiet ride

edatoakrun
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Re: "The challenge is to make an electric car do something that gasoline proportions and design can never do."

Sat Oct 08, 2016 11:25 am

DanCar wrote:What gasoline can't do:
1. Ludicrous mode
2. Breath clean air around your car, while it is running
3. Stop sucking in carcinogens at the gas station
4. Stop feeding the terrorists
5. Few moving parts means less maintenance
https://plus.google.com/u/1/+DanielCard ... HZygJpydsz
6. Save time by plugging in at home
7. Quiet ride

Their is no question that BEVs are superior to ICEVs for most purposes.

The question is, why do designers feel the need to make BEVs look so much like those very inferior ICEVs?

And IMO, it is probably mostly due to buyers who actually prefer the horseless buggy approach, and praise BEVs for their design (as exemplified by the Tesla S) merely because they mimic the appearance of the obsolete cars ICEV drivers are accustomed to.
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DanCar
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Re: "The challenge is to make an electric car do something that gasoline proportions and design can never do."

Sat Oct 08, 2016 11:29 am

Besides BEVs allowing a different design because no front engine requirement, I think driverless will also cause a big design leap. Perhaps in 10 years the ton of safety requirements will no longer be required.

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Re: "The challenge is to make an electric car do something that gasoline proportions and design can never do."

Sat Oct 08, 2016 2:05 pm

DanCar wrote:Besides BEVs allowing a different design because no front engine requirement, I think driverless will also cause a big design leap. Perhaps in 10 years the ton of safety requirements will no longer be required.


I think it will be more like 50 years as it will take that long to get all the cars without the autonomous safety features off the road. As long as those accident prone vehicles are out there, the rest have to have all the airbags and crumple zones etc. to keep the occupants safe when they encounter an old timer.
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LeftieBiker
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Re: "The challenge is to make an electric car do something that gasoline proportions and design can never do."

Sat Oct 08, 2016 2:21 pm

The reason for making EVs so ICE-like is pretty straightforward. In order to sell enough EVs to make money on the venture, they have to find buyers among more than the ' in between EVs right now, or about to stop leasing one' niche. They have to appeal to people who are driving ICE vehicles now, but who want to stop buying gas and smelling exhaust, and who otherwise like cars as they are.
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abasile
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Re: "The challenge is to make an electric car do something that gasoline proportions and design can never do."

Sat Oct 08, 2016 4:41 pm

The Tesla Model S is of course a fine example of a purpose-built EV that isn't constrained by the limitations of an ICEV. With no need to accommodate an exhaust system, it's able to seat two additional passengers (though children only) in the rear. And with no ICE, there's room for a "frunk" up front. With no need for a transaxle, even in AWD models, there's no center "hump"; consequently, a large backpack can be placed between the front seats, and a middle passenger in the back seat is left with more leg room.

Design-wise, what other distinct features would we like to see in BEVs?
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Zythryn
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Re: "The challenge is to make an electric car do something that gasoline proportions and design can never do."

Sun Oct 09, 2016 4:27 am

abasile wrote:...
Design-wise, what other distinct features would we like to see in BEVs?


+1!
ICE vehicles have changed a fair amount over time.
Companies have tried 3 wheel cars, cars with a single door that was the front of the car, 2 passenger cars, 8 passenger "cars", cars with stretched trunks/hatches, tall cars, short cars, roofless cars.

Beyond what EVs have already done,I am not sure exactly what basic changes to the form of an EV vs ICE you are looking for?

In most cases, form follows function. The function of both the ICE and EV are the same.
For some, it is to move from point A to B along roads.
For others, it is to make a statement.
For others, it is to enjoy the trip.

People buy cars for a mix of the above reasons.
I don't see this changing, thus I don't see the design of a vehicle changing radically.
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smkettner
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Re: "The challenge is to make an electric car do something that gasoline proportions and design can never do."

Sun Oct 09, 2016 2:32 pm

I agree any change will be slow. We still need crumple zones especially in the front.
Vehicle just needs seats for the people and the right space for any payload.
Still need four wheels for stability and an aerodynamic cover.
What is going to depart from what ICE vehicle needs?
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edatoakrun
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Re: "The challenge is to make an electric car do something that gasoline proportions and design can never do."

Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:38 am

smkettner wrote:I agree any change will be slow...What is going to depart from what ICE vehicle needs?

Read the article linked in my OP, which offers a number of suggestions:

http://www.autonews.com/article/2016100 ... c-makeover

abasile wrote:The Tesla Model S is of course a fine example of a purpose-built EV that isn't constrained by the limitations of an ICEV. With no need to accommodate an exhaust system, it's able to seat two additional passengers (though children only) in the rear. And with no ICE, there's room for a "frunk" up front. With no need for a transaxle, even in AWD models, there's no center "hump"; consequently, a large backpack can be placed between the front seats, and a middle passenger in the back seat is left with more leg room.

Design-wise, what other distinct features would we like to see in BEVs?

My 1972 VW squareback has a much larger and more useful frunk than any Tesla.

Back in the 1960's. my parents each drove a car with a third seat with much more headroom than an S, a Mercury wagon and a Citroen DS.

The Citroen DS wagon, an ICEV designed almost 60 years ago, also has flat front and rear floors, with "...no center "hump"; consequently, a large backpack can be placed between the front seats, and a middle passenger in the back seat is left with more leg room..."

In terms of design, the Tesla S is derivative, nothing more (or less) than the bastard offspring of Jaguar and Maserati ICEV designs.

Many people seem to like it, but I find it disappointingly uninspired.
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