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abasile
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Re: "The challenge is to make an electric car do something that gasoline proportions and design can never do."

Tue Oct 11, 2016 10:08 am

It's certainly true that the Model S wasn't the first vehicle with a "frunk", a possible third row of seats, a flat floor, plenty of cargo space, etc. However, what I find significant is that those attributes exist in a very aerodynamic, sporty, and efficient vehicle. (Amazingly, the newest Model S with AWD is, according to the EPA, a more efficient vehicle than my much smaller 2011 LEAF!)

Styling is inherently subjective, so it's understandable that some may not be impressed with the looks of the Model S (or any other vehicle).

As far as I could tell, the only significant suggestion in that article that might pertain to the functional design of today's not-fully-autonomous EVs would be to lengthen the wheelbase. It'll be interesting to see an automaker try that.
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DanCar
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Re: "The challenge is to make an electric car do something that gasoline proportions and design can never do."

Tue Oct 11, 2016 12:19 pm

DarthPuppy wrote:
DanCar wrote:Besides BEVs allowing a different design because no front engine requirement, I think driverless will also cause a big design leap. Perhaps in 10 years the ton of safety requirements will no longer be required.
I think it will be more like 50 years as it will take that long to get all the cars without the autonomous safety features off the road. As long as those accident prone vehicles are out there, the rest have to have all the airbags and crumple zones etc. to keep the occupants safe when they encounter an old timer.
No front end collisions with Google driverless cars. Dozen + times has been rear ended, t-boned, and minor side swipe. If the trend continues then front crumple zones, heavy duty front bumper, and front air bags, will become less interesting. In other words, good driverless cars are good at not running into things.

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Re: "The challenge is to make an electric car do something that gasoline proportions and design can never do."

Tue Oct 11, 2016 12:23 pm

I just leased a VW eGolf. This car was designed for three power plants. The EV version has the same size as the ICE version. We all know that the cheating oil burner version is dead but hopefully not the company.
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GRA
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Re: "The challenge is to make an electric car do something that gasoline proportions and design can never do."

Tue Oct 11, 2016 4:53 pm

Why are most EVs laid out and look so similar to ICEs? Because weirdmobiles like the Dymaxion were such a sales success (not). Autonomous cars will allow removing safety-related and manual control features to save weight and space once they make up a significant part of the fleet, but that's not going to be for at least 20 years. As to the rest, the human body retains the same general proportions and shape it's always had, which is why mini-compacts tend to look like human babies, with heads disproportionately big for their bodies. Barring major genetic re-design, cars will still have to fit people: http://snltranscripts.jt.org/76/76cgenetics.phtml
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

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smkettner
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Re: "The challenge is to make an electric car do something that gasoline proportions and design can never do."

Tue Oct 11, 2016 6:56 pm

edatoakrun wrote:
smkettner wrote:I agree any change will be slow...What is going to depart from what ICE vehicle needs?

Read the article linked in my OP, which offers a number of suggestions:

http://www.autonews.com/article/2016100 ... c-makeover

OK and I did not read anything unique to electric vehicles.
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DarthPuppy
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Re: "The challenge is to make an electric car do something that gasoline proportions and design can never do."

Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:15 pm

DanCar wrote:No front end collisions with Google driverless cars. Dozen + times has been rear ended, t-boned, and minor side swipe. If the trend continues then front crumple zones, heavy duty front bumper, and front air bags, will become less interesting. In other words, good driverless cars are good at not running into things.


The fact the autonomous car is good at not hitting things will not prevent oncoming non-autonomous sleepers from crossing the line at the wrong time and impacting the front. So until those non-autonomous versions are low enough in terms of the population on the road, all of the safety features will need to remain. Yes those happen less often then rear-endings, but when they do, they are very dangerous. As time goes on, there will soon be plenty of examples of autonomous cars not being able to avoid those front end collisions caused by the other driver.
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DanCar
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Re: "The challenge is to make an electric car do something that gasoline proportions and design can never do."

Wed Oct 12, 2016 3:27 am

DarthPuppy wrote:
DanCar wrote:No front end collisions with Google driverless cars. Dozen + times has been rear ended, t-boned, and minor side swipe. If the trend continues then front crumple zones, heavy duty front bumper, and front air bags, will become less interesting. In other words, good driverless cars are good at not running into things.


The fact the autonomous car is good at not hitting things will not prevent oncoming non-autonomous sleepers from crossing the line at the wrong time and impacting the front. So until those non-autonomous versions are low enough in terms of the population on the road, all of the safety features will need to remain. Yes those happen less often then rear-endings, but when they do, they are very dangerous. As time goes on, there will soon be plenty of examples of autonomous cars not being able to avoid those front end collisions caused by the other driver.
if the car is truly driverless, then people may not be in the front , making the front crumple zone again less interesting. Also if facing backwards into the car, front air bags become worthless.

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Re: "The challenge is to make an electric car do something that gasoline proportions and design can never do."

Thu Oct 13, 2016 8:53 pm

DanCar wrote:if the car is truly driverless, then people may not be in the front , making the front crumple zone again less interesting. Also if facing backwards into the car, front air bags become worthless.


As long as there are front seats, there is the likelihood of front passengers and therefore the safety features will need to remain. And good luck getting people to all ride facing backwards in their cars - even the ones who don't have motion sickness problems when doing so.
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edatoakrun
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Re: "The challenge is to make an electric car do something that gasoline proportions and design can never do."

Mon Dec 05, 2016 10:43 am

Back on-topic (original post below) this article compares the three BEVs to be introduced in the next one-to-two years which will presumably spend quite a bit on style...


Audi e-tron vs Jaguar I-Pace vs Mercedes EQ: electric luxury SUVs compared


After sales of 150,000 or more electric luxury cars from Tesla Motors over four years, the first major wave of long-range electric cars from established luxury automakers is now on the way.

So far, it seems the first of these vehicles will not be sedans that compete with the Tesla Model S, but crossovers apparently targeting the Silicon Valley automaker's Model X.

Over the past year, Audi, Jaguar, and Mercedes-Benz have all unveiled concepts for electric crossover utility vehicles at major auto shows.

All three preview future production models, but none of these electric luxury SUVs will start production until at least 2018, however.

In the meantime, here's what we can expect based on the recent crop of concepts...

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/110 ... s-compared

Personally, of the three I'm most impressed by the Jaguar as I previously posted on the I-Pace thread:
...I give Jaguar credit for taking huge risks with the I-Pace design.

JLR plans to power into plug-ins
Company steers clear of self-driving vehicles


...Speth said the U.S. will be the major market for the high-performance I-Pace...

What's "not clear," Speth said, is whether customers will accept the new design direction of the I-Pace, especially its short hood. Buyers are used to Jaguar's long hood for "the more powerful horses," he said...

IMO, the I-pace design works, and I hope its acceptance will mean we will soon not have to see BEVs continue to display their huge empty frunks , in mimicry of the engine bays of ICEVs...


viewtopic.php?f=10&t=22545&start=10

edatoakrun wrote:I'm disappointed that we still must drive BEVs that in terms of design are little more than clumsy imitations of ICEVs.

While this new Merc probably fails the test (IMO) at least there is some evidence in statements by designers that they understand the opportunity.

Mercedes gives itself an electric makeover

When Karl Benz built the first gasoline-powered automobile in 1885, it looked like a horse-drawn carriage without the horses. It would take more than three decades for the shape of vehicles to catch up to the new way of propelling them forward.

Mercedes-Benz design chief Gorden Wagener says electric motors could similarly reshape the way cars look. "The architecture is going to change fundamentally," Wagener says.

At the Paris auto show on Sept. 29, Wagener unveiled the Generation EQ concept, an electric SUV with a range of roughly 480 km (300 miles) as part of a lineup Mercedes will market under a new subbrand, EQ. The first model -- which Mercedes says will be priced to compete with similar cars with traditional engines -- will arrive in 2019...

Standout styling too has not always succeeded. BMW created a new look for its i3 electric city car in 2013, but the quirky design was a factor in the tepid response from buyers. The Model S from Tesla Motors -- with a price tag that can top $110,000 -- has been more successful, last year outselling the $96,600 Mercedes S class in the U.S. But it looks pretty much like other luxury sedans.

"Soon, somebody may take the 'bold pill,' and something completely unique and fabulous will come out," says Howard Guy of Design Q, an automotive design studio that’s worked with Jaguar, Aston Martin, and Ferrari. "The challenge is to make an electric car do something that gasoline proportions and design can never do."...

http://www.autonews.com/article/2016100 ... c-makeover
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Re: "The challenge is to make an electric car do something that gasoline proportions and design can never do."

Mon Dec 05, 2016 5:37 pm

Can't say I care for the looks of any of these. Although the Jag is marginally better, they all borrow too much of what I call Chrysler's 'Gangster Limo' look - high beltlines and low roofs with massive supports and huge blind spots, giving the car the appearance of being armored. Fortunately these are just concept cars, which allow the designers to be silly/whimsical.
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The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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