LeftieBiker
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Re: Hyundai Kona Electric

Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:07 pm

The Bolt has no heat pump. It too has a system for scavenging heat from the car's drivetrain (not the brakes) to provide a little heat, but in the Bolt's case it goes to the cabin.
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GRA
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Re: Hyundai Kona Electric

Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:14 pm

^^^ Thanks.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

JeffN
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Re: Hyundai Kona Electric

Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:04 pm

GRA wrote:Thanks, nice review. I forget,, does the Bolt have a heat pump, or just a resistive heater? If the Kona details are confirmed, the lack of availability of a heat pump for U.S. cars, at least along the coasts, south and desert southwest where winters are mild, is idiotic. It's not needed (although it will still waste energy) for local use where the range is excessive, but for road trips it does matter, and these cars have both the range and charging speeds to be used for weekend trips. The battery heater will be needed/wanted in mountain areas and the northern tier states. Offer them both as options and be done with ti, or at least make the heat pump standard and the heater optional.

The Bolt EV only has a resistive cabin heater. It also always has a dedicated battery heater.

I personally think all Kona’s should come with the dedicated battery heater because people travel on vacation and may sometimes need it. It would be nice to have a customer option on the cabin heating or make it part of a trim package at least but with a big enough battery it becomes less critical.

JeffN
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Re: Hyundai Kona Electric

Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:13 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:The Bolt has no heat pump. It too has a system for scavenging heat from the car's drivetrain (not the brakes) to provide a little heat, but in the Bolt's case it goes to the cabin.

I’m not aware of anything in the Bolt EV cabin heating that scavenges heat from the powertrain. The Bolt has a dedicated water-glycol loop that passes through an electric heater and then goes through a heat exchanger in the cabin ventilation ducts. This loop is completely separate from the powertrain coolant loop and there is no heat exchanger or computer-controlled valves that interconnect them to share heat as far as I know. The Bolt also has a 3rd coolant loop dedicated just to the battery pack.

By contrast, the Kona EV has only a single coolant loop for the motor, power electronics, and battery but appears to have computer controlled valves that can separate the battery into its own subloop when it doesn’t want to share heat from the powertrain.

ElectricEddy
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Re: Hyundai Kona Electric

Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:26 pm

Bolt uses a 7.5kW resistive heater and boosts that to a 9 kW draw when enabling the "auto defog" :shock:

https://www.mychevybolt.com/forum/viewt ... =10#p13192
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LeftieBiker
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Re: Hyundai Kona Electric

Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:03 pm

JeffN wrote:
LeftieBiker wrote:The Bolt has no heat pump. It too has a system for scavenging heat from the car's drivetrain (not the brakes) to provide a little heat, but in the Bolt's case it goes to the cabin.

I’m not aware of anything in the Bolt EV cabin heating that scavenges heat from the powertrain. The Bolt has a dedicated water-glycol loop that passes through an electric heater and then goes through a heat exchanger in the cabin ventilation ducts. This loop is completely separate from the powertrain coolant loop and there is no heat exchanger or computer-controlled valves that interconnect them to share heat as far as I know. The Bolt also has a 3rd coolant loop dedicated just to the battery pack.

By contrast, the Kona EV has only a single coolant loop for the motor, power electronics, and battery but appears to have computer controlled valves that can separate the battery into its own subloop when it doesn’t want to share heat from the powertrain.


The scavenging circuit was mentioned several times in early descriptions of the design, and was the explanation given when drivers experienced small amounts of heat entering the cabin when the Heater was off in mild weather. As I recall, the heat comes from the controller and maybe the inverter. I believe it is the basis for some people thinking that the Bolt has a heat pump. I'd go look in the Bolt forum, but at some point in this last year I lost access to all the other EV forums on this site...
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alozzy
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Re: Hyundai Kona Electric

Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:43 am

Very favorable review of the Kona Electric, just posted to YouTube:

https://youtu.be/qe2PGCCODu0
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JeffN
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Re: Hyundai Kona Electric

Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:31 am

LeftieBiker wrote:
JeffN wrote:
LeftieBiker wrote:The Bolt has no heat pump. It too has a system for scavenging heat from the car's drivetrain (not the brakes) to provide a little heat, but in the Bolt's case it goes to the cabin.

I’m not aware of anything in the Bolt EV cabin heating that scavenges heat from the powertrain. The Bolt has a dedicated water-glycol loop that passes through an electric heater and then goes through a heat exchanger in the cabin ventilation ducts. This loop is completely separate from the powertrain coolant loop and there is no heat exchanger or computer-controlled valves that interconnect them to share heat as far as I know. The Bolt also has a 3rd coolant loop dedicated just to the battery pack.

By contrast, the Kona EV has only a single coolant loop for the motor, power electronics, and battery but appears to have computer controlled valves that can separate the battery into its own subloop when it doesn’t want to share heat from the powertrain.


The scavenging circuit was mentioned several times in early descriptions of the design, and was the explanation given when drivers experienced small amounts of heat entering the cabin when the Heater was off in mild weather. As I recall, the heat comes from the controller and maybe the inverter. I believe it is the basis for some people thinking that the Bolt has a heat pump. I'd go look in the Bolt forum, but at some point in this last year I lost access to all the other EV forums on this site...

You may be thinking of a different car? I’m pretty confident that the Bolt does not scavenge heat like that. The Bolt battery coolant loop does (like pretty much all cars with liquid-cooled battery packs) have a tap into the A/C refrigerant loop so a hot battery can cause the A/C system to start up to help cool the battery and this also cools the cabin even if cabin A/C is not specifically enabled. The reverse is not true in the Bolt — cabin heating and battery heating are entirely independent and do not share heat. I own a Bolt and bought a copy of the ~4,500 page Bolt service manual.

LeftieBiker
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Re: Hyundai Kona Electric

Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:39 am

You may be thinking of a different car? I’m pretty confident that the Bolt does not scavenge heat like that. The Bolt battery coolant loop does (like pretty much all cars with liquid-cooled battery packs) have a tap into the A/C refrigerant loop so a hot battery can cause the A/C system to start up to help cool the battery and this also cools the cabin even if cabin A/C is not specifically enabled. The reverse is not true in the Bolt — cabin heating and battery heating are entirely independent and do not share heat. I own a Bolt and bought a copy of the ~4,500 page Bolt service manual.


I can't say that this car actually scavenges heat. All I can say is that the claim was made when the car was new, and that people in the Bolt forum mentioned feeling warm air entering the cabin in cool but mild temps like the low sixties. If you have access to the Bolt forum (I no longer do) then searching there should produce the posts.
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GRA
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Re: Hyundai Kona Electric

Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:59 pm

Via IEVS, Edmunds' video comparo of the Bolt and Kona: https://insideevs.com/edmunds-hyundai-kona-electric-vs-chevy-bolt/ They both pan the Bolt's seats, light-colored interior (glare - avoid) and cheap feel, but like its driving dynamics esp. regen in 'L' mode which is stronger than the Kona's highest level ('3'), steering wheel positioning, rear seat leg/foot room. The Kona has a better ride, better seats, more upscale interior, more range and slightly greater cargo space and they give the nod to it, but it's close.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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