alozzy
Posts: 1211
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:25 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Jan 2017
Location: Vancouver, BC
Contact: Website

Re: Hyundai Kona Electric

Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:59 pm

According to this Hyundai Canada article, a heat pump will be standard equipment in Canadian Kona Electrics:

https://www.hyundaicanada.com/en/newsro ... uv%20400km
Vancouver, CA owner of a 2013 Ocean Blue SV + QC, purchased 01/2017 in WA
Zencar 12/20/24/30A L1/L2 portable EVSE
1-1/4" Curt #11396 hitch
After market, DIY LED DRLs
LeafSpy Pro + Konnwei KW902 ELM327 BT OBDII dongle
Loving my first BEV :D

GRA
Posts: 9531
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Hyundai Kona Electric

Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:38 pm

It's good that the Canadian version will have a heat pump, although battery heating would seem to be of equal or greater importance in parts of the country away from the coasts, as winter temps will frequently be below the point at which resistive heating will be used in any case.

The lack of a heat pump is critical in U.S. states below the northern tier, and why on earth Hyundai wouldn't at least offer both as options here is baffling. Hopefully it's just media error, but it wouldn't hurt to contact Hyundai/Kia and make your feelings known, and I did (to Kia) as follows:
I live in the S. F. Bay Area, but am a cross-country skier. I've been driving Subarus for the past 30 years and have been v. satisfied with them, but want to go ZEV for my next car. Hwy range, especially in winter, is crucial for me to do so, and only having resistive heat when the temps are usually well above the teens will waste energy on heating that could be used for range with a heat pump. While active battery heating isn't as much of an issue for me, downhill skiers who can charge at resorts and those who live in colder parts of the country need it. Both these features should be available, if not standard, for North American customers.

My Subies have been AWD, as I hate putting chains on when I don't need them, and owing to the way California implements chain controls (usually skipping direct from R1 to R3, so having 2WD with snow tires is rarely allowed), there are many occasions when you have to put them on and remove them more than once in a trip. For anyone who lives at low level but drives up to the Sierra to ski, having AWD is a major convenience, even if it's not really needed for grip most of the time. Much as I and many outdoorsy types want to go ZEV, if the Niro is to capture a significant portion of the skiing crowd, it will need AWD.

Finally, while it's become rare to have spaces for them, those of us who take long trips to remote places, including a fair amount of driving on dirt roads, want a (preferably full-size) spare.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GetOffYourGas
Posts: 1946
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:56 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2012
Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: Hyundai Kona Electric

Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:21 pm

Just curious - any response from Kia?
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV (traded for Bolt)
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)
2017 Bolt Premier

ElectricEddy
Posts: 489
Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:42 pm
Delivery Date: 31 Oct 2016
Leaf Number: 313506
Location: Nanaimo, B.C.

Re: Hyundai Kona Electric

Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:33 pm

I believe the option is "winter mode" in the settings fro active battery heating for Kona.
So it should be easy to check out. I realize it's not something that I would use regularly , but I would prefer to have the option to travel north B.C. and Alberta and beyond .
What would be the production cost savings ($500)? vs the consequences to install a couple of 300W heating elements.
And yes the heat pump is essential .
Pearl White Sl
mfd date 09/16

GRA
Posts: 9531
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Hyundai Kona Electric

Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:09 pm

GetOffYourGas wrote:Just curious - any response from Kia?

Not yet. When I hit 'send message' there was a note that they had sent an auto-reply to my email noting they'd received it and would get back to me within 48 hours with an actual person replying, but I haven't gotten either. We'll see if they bother by say Monday, as I assume people won't be around to answer on the weekend.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

alozzy
Posts: 1211
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:25 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Jan 2017
Location: Vancouver, BC
Contact: Website

Re: Hyundai Kona Electric

Sat Oct 20, 2018 12:20 am

If you scroll to the bottom of this page

https://mobile.hyundai.co.uk/new-cars/kona-electric

You'll find a link for a PDF spec sheet. The spec sheet explicitly mentions "battery heater", so it would appear that's standard equipment, at least in the UK model.
Vancouver, CA owner of a 2013 Ocean Blue SV + QC, purchased 01/2017 in WA
Zencar 12/20/24/30A L1/L2 portable EVSE
1-1/4" Curt #11396 hitch
After market, DIY LED DRLs
LeafSpy Pro + Konnwei KW902 ELM327 BT OBDII dongle
Loving my first BEV :D

SageBrush
Posts: 2946
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Hyundai Kona Electric

Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:50 am

ElectricEddy wrote:And yes the heat pump is essential .

Your opinion.

I owned a Prius Prime during a Colorado winter that comes with an advanced heat pump. The issue is that heat pump efficiency drops off quickly below 32F so from my POV it is not much better than resistance heating at the temperatures I want it running.

I can imagine it making a substantial difference in high humidity climates where cabin heating is used even at moderate temperatures to keep the glass fog free.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

JeffN
Posts: 131
Joined: Fri May 20, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 20 May 2011
Location: San Francisco, CA

Re: Hyundai Kona Electric

Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:30 am

My somewhat more technically detailed review of the Kona Electric is here:

https://electricrevs.com/2018/10/16/hyu ... ev-except/

It includes some technical description of the apparent cooling loop that can share heat from the motor and power electronics with the battery peak even when there is no dedicated electric battery pack heater.

My understanding of the cabin and battery heater situation is:

Canada, and at least some parts of Europe gets heat pump, US gets resistive heater

Canada is likely, in my opinion, to get the dedicated battery heater although this is not officially confirmed by Hyundai yet.

California will not get a dedicated battery heater but it’s possible that some colder northern regions like New York might get the battery heater. Again, still awaiting official confirmation.

These cabin and battery heater configurations are not customer options but are regional distribution configurations much like gasoline cars in different states get different regional emissions equipment configurations.

GRA
Posts: 9531
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Hyundai Kona Electric

Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:44 pm

SageBrush wrote:
ElectricEddy wrote:And yes the heat pump is essential .

Your opinion.

I owned a Prius Prime during a Colorado winter that comes with an advanced heat pump. The issue is that heat pump efficiency drops off quickly below 32F so from my POV it is not much better than resistance heating at the temperatures I want it running.

I can imagine it making a substantial difference in high humidity climates where cabin heating is used even at moderate temperatures to keep the glass fog free.

Considering ElectricEddy's local climate: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanaimo#Climate I'd say a heat pump is pretty much an essential, or at least a very practical year-round option for him (or Californians like me). You, not so much, although you'd still benefit spring and fall.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 9531
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Hyundai Kona Electric

Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:49 pm

JeffN wrote:My somewhat more technically detailed review of the Kona Electric is here:

https://electricrevs.com/2018/10/16/hyu ... ev-except/

It includes some technical description of the apparent cooling loop that can share heat from the motor and power electronics with the battery peak even when there is no dedicated electric battery pack heater.

My understanding of the cabin and battery heater situation is:

Canada, and at least some parts of Europe gets heat pump, US gets resistive heater

Canada is likely, in my opinion, to get the dedicated battery heater although this is not officially confirmed by Hyundai yet.

California will not get a dedicated battery heater but it’s possible that some colder northern regions like New York might get the battery heater. Again, still awaiting official confirmation.

These cabin and battery heater configurations are not customer options but are regional distribution configurations much like gasoline cars in different states get different regional emissions equipment configurations.

Thanks, nice review. I forget,, does the Bolt have a heat pump, or just a resistive heater? If the Kona details are confirmed, the lack of availability of a heat pump for U.S. cars, at least along the coasts, south and desert southwest where winters are mild, is idiotic. It's not needed (although it will still waste energy) for local use where the range is excessive, but for road trips it does matter, and these cars have both the range and charging speeds to be used for weekend trips. The battery heater will be needed/wanted in mountain areas and the northern tier states. Offer them both as options and be done with ti, or at least make the heat pump standard and the heater optional.
Last edited by GRA on Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:13 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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