SageBrush
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Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Official Tesla Model S thread

Thu May 18, 2017 10:06 am

Graffi wrote:Now for home charging. We do have the AV 240v, 30a unit for the Leaf. It will be okay to use it, but I was thinking of installing another 50a breaker on the panel and installing a 240v, NEMA 14-50 outlet for the Tesla EVSE included with the car. The electrical panel is outside the garage so I can install it on the inside wall at the panel. Any thoughts? Should I be looking for a larger amp breaker and connection? We have a 200 amp panel, with a 5kw solar system.
IIRC Tesla offers a base OBC of about 40 kW or an optioned up choice of 80 kW. If you have the base option then a 15-40 on a 50 Amp dedicated circuit will provide all the power the car will take.
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

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abasile
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Delivery Date: 20 Apr 2011
Location: Arrowbear Lake, CA

Re: Official Tesla Model S thread

Thu May 18, 2017 12:01 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:For the elevation challenges you have, I have to say the LEAF is simply not gonna work....yet

It's very true that the 24 kWh LEAF was never a great fit for us. Still, we've managed to rack up 68K miles! This would have been considerably easier with the 30 kWh LEAF, which has enough range to descend our mountain, do a bit of driving around, then make the trip back up.

Our Tesla is superb for our drives beyond the LEAF's single-charge range. Last weekend, we drove it down to Pasadena and up to the summit of Mount Wilson for a group tour of the astronomical observatories. Then, instead of returning home on the freeway through the city, we drove east through the San Gabriel Mountains on the scenic Angeles Crest Highway which tops out at 7900', then past Silverwood Lake on CA-138, up through Crestline, and home across the "Rim" on CA-18. It was a very pleasant 195 mile round trip, with no stops for charging or gasoline. Of course, after plugging in for the night, the car had plenty of range for the next day's driving. So, even with longer drives like that one, we're truly saving time by not having to stop at gas stations. :D

There was one little hitch, though. Our Tesla key fob didn't really work on the summit of Mount Wilson due to the heavy R/F interference! So I had to hunt around for the radio receiver in the rear of the car, left of center. By holding the fob against the bumper in that spot, I was able to unlock the car. Then, to "start" the car, I had to hold the fob just under the 12V outlet in the front console area.
Last edited by abasile on Thu May 18, 2017 12:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2011 LEAF at 69K miles, pre-owned 2012 Tesla S 85 at 89K miles
LEAF battery: 9/12 bars and < 49 Ah (-28% vs. new)
Tesla battery: 250+ miles of range (-5% vs. new)

GetOffYourGas
Posts: 1500
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:56 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2012
Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: Official Tesla Model S thread

Thu May 18, 2017 12:06 pm

SageBrush wrote:
Graffi wrote:Now for home charging. We do have the AV 240v, 30a unit for the Leaf. It will be okay to use it, but I was thinking of installing another 50a breaker on the panel and installing a 240v, NEMA 14-50 outlet for the Tesla EVSE included with the car. The electrical panel is outside the garage so I can install it on the inside wall at the panel. Any thoughts? Should I be looking for a larger amp breaker and connection? We have a 200 amp panel, with a 5kw solar system.
IIRC Tesla offers a base OBC of about 40 kW or an optioned up choice of 80 kW. If you have the base option then a 15-40 on a 50 Amp dedicated circuit will provide all the power the car will take.


You are correct, but your units are wrong. The base OBC is 40A, which is 240V * 40A = 9.6kW nominal. The upgraded OBC (if still offered) is 80A or 240V * 80A = 19.2kW nominal.

Tesla marketing turned 9.6kW into 10kW and 19.2kW into 20kW.
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)

SageBrush
Posts: 856
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
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Location: Colorado

Re: Official Tesla Model S thread

Thu May 18, 2017 12:09 pm

GetOffYourGas wrote:
SageBrush wrote:
Graffi wrote:Now for home charging. We do have the AV 240v, 30a unit for the Leaf. It will be okay to use it, but I was thinking of installing another 50a breaker on the panel and installing a 240v, NEMA 14-50 outlet for the Tesla EVSE included with the car. The electrical panel is outside the garage so I can install it on the inside wall at the panel. Any thoughts? Should I be looking for a larger amp breaker and connection? We have a 200 amp panel, with a 5kw solar system.
IIRC Tesla offers a base OBC of about 40 kW or an optioned up choice of 80 kW. If you have the base option then a 15-40 on a 50 Amp dedicated circuit will provide all the power the car will take.


You are correct, but your units are wrong.

OOPS. Right you are. Thanks for the correction
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

Graffi
Posts: 399
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:01 pm
Delivery Date: 06 Sep 2013
Leaf Number: 414757
Location: San Diego, CA

Re: Official Tesla Model S thread

Thu May 18, 2017 1:04 pm

We made it back from Denver to San Diego with no problems. We got back home around 2pm yesterday, Wednesday, after a "fill-up" at the Temecula, CA Supercharger. We left the Tesla Model S 75D set at 90% because there is no need to wait around for the extra time to get that last 10% anyway. We only missed the one Supercharger in north Las Vegas because we wanted to stop at the one close to the airport, Las Vegas south. We would stop it at 80% then on to the next station. We very much enjoyed our drive, meeting many other Tesla owners. We ended up spending more time at most stations than we had planned just chatting with the folks.

We found ourselves driving much faster than we had planned, just following the flow of traffic. We LOVE the AP2. It took some getting used to but eventually we both learned to trust it to make the curves by itself without us taking over. We were set for 7 car lengths spacing but eventually realized that we will need to change that, maybe try 3 and see how it goes. The auto lane change is great. The car already had the 17.17.17 update installed. We do hope that future updates will help to smooth out the driving around curves, but the jerking was not too bad, considering that we could just let it go and do it's thing and still get us home safe.

We only had one leg that gave us worry. We had stopped the charge at 70% in Green River, UT, thinking that the rated 181 mile range would be enough to get us the 124 miles we needed with a little reserve until the next Supercharger in Richfield, UT. After all, we did have 57 miles more than we needed, right? Well, what we did not (read that to mean me, not my wife) account for was the terrain and wind. We were happily driving along with AP going 80 mph up, then up, then up some more. There is a lot of high mountain passes on this route. Beautiful though it was, even at night, it is very high. Also we were experiencing very strong head winds. Now in the usual rented cars we take our cross country trips in we can feel the wind, hear it even. NOT in the Tesla S. It was so smooth and quite. Such a joy to drive in. Okay, back to the story. Anyway, we were happily driving (meaning me for this leg), using the AP2. Every once in a while I would check the Remaining Miles, and compare it to the miles needed to drive to get to the Richfield, UT Supercharger. I began to notice that our reserve of 57 miles kept reducing. Then the GPS on the touch-screen, along with the dash GPS started giving me the message that I needed to slow down to 60 mph to make it to our next stop. Well when did I ever listen to sound advice. I was not going to let some computer tell me what to do. So on I drove at 80 mph (this was the posted speed limit, by the way), but I was continuing to watch the dwindling reserve while AP2 was continuing to safely drive us along the freeway. Eventually I started having visions of spending hours waiting on a tow truck, in the middle of the night, just to drag us to the next Supercharger. Therefore when the reserve reached 30 miles I slowed down 5 mph, to 75. When the reserve reached 25 miles I slowed down another 5 mph, to 70. This was a little better, but it kept dropping. By this time we were past the summit and on our way down so it should give us lots more range. However, the headwind was not helping us at all. At 20 miles reserve another 5 mph reduction to 65 mph. We were lasting longer at each reduced speed, but still losing reserve. At 15 miles reserve I slowed down another 5 mph to 60. By this time I was wishing that we had waited the extra 10 minutes to charge from 70% to 80%. That extra 25 rated miles would have been useful. Even at 60 mph we were still losing reserve because of the headwind. At 10 miles reserve I again slowed down another 5 mph to 55 mph. As a side note, we do love the AP2 speed adjustment of 1 mph and 5 mph. It makes it so easy to adjust speed. Finally at 55 mph we were able to get better efficiency than rated so the reserve started to grow. I though about increasing speed but decided that the extra time driving slower was not worth the risk of not getting to the station. Well Hallelujah, we made it to the Richfield, UT Supercharger station with a whopping 22 miles remaining (8% of battery). From then on we charged a minimum of 80%, except at Las Vegas south we stopped as soon as we got back from the bathroom and the car was at 66%. We only had 36 miles to Primm, NV. At Primm we went to the MacDonalds for breakfast so the car was almost 90% when we returned. We waited a couple of minutes for it to finish, then left for Barstow, CA., 119 miles away.

Overall, we are very happy with our new Tesla, and are looking forward to the next 15,000 miles or so of trips we will be using it for in the next 3 months.

Concerning the Supercharger speeds, I was looking forward to getting 120Kw for the first 50% of charge, but was disappointed. It must be with the 90 or 100Kwh models that get that speed. The highest speed we got was 99kw, but usually 97 or 98kw below 50% battery charge. From above 50% the speed dropped. I tried to record speed at each 5% mark but missed some when we left the car to eat or use the restroom. I will continue to plot our Supercharger speeds as we continue our travels in the next few months. We did notice that every Supercharger was different, but within a close range of speed. I will post what data I have now.

Below 50% charge: 96 to 99Kw
55% - 80 to 87Kw
60% - 72 to 81Kw
65% - 64 to 78Kw
70% - 56 to 66Kw
75% - 43 to 56Kw
80% - 36 to 44Kw
85% - 29 to 36Kw
90% - 25 to 30Kw
I will update this list as more data is gathered on our next trip.

The slowest charge, and the station furtherest from the freeway, was St. George, UT. Also at St. George we were not able to find restroom until the Starbucks opened up at 5am. Because of this we stayed plugged in until the full 90% charge was achieved while we were away from the car. The GPS got us to every station, but we did have to search in the dark before we saw a few of them. Still, overall we were very happy with our experience.

On a side note, we have learned to use "Hypermileing" techniques driving our Leaf. We try to drive only 55 or 60 mph on the freeway, Occasionally we go faster, but only if we are in a big hurry and a short trip. With the Tesla I thought about trying to limit our speed to 60 mph on the trip back to conserve energy. However, since I needed to get back home to teach a class Wednesday night I felt it best to give the Tesla a real world test run. Most drivers of gas cars seem to push the limit of speed. If EVs are to gain general acceptance then they must meet these needs, even if that is not the most efficient method. Very few drivers are thinking about conserving. They just want to conserve their time and never mind what fuel or energy they waste. Because of this, I set the Tesla limit at 5 mph over speed limit. However, on the entire trip our fastest cruising speed was 80 mph.
2013 SL Metalic Slate - We LOVE our Leaf
MFG 08/13 Dlv 09/06/13 @ 10 mi
# 77 100 mile club
# 10 200 km club

2017 Tesla S 75D Pearl White
Delivered 5/16/17 @ 900 mi
Tesla Model 3 on order awaiting 200+ mile range Nissan Leaf

DaveinOlyWA
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Re: Official Tesla Model S thread

Thu May 18, 2017 4:19 pm

Graffi wrote:We made it back from Denver to San Diego with no problems. We got back home around 2pm yesterday, Wednesday, after a "fill-up" at the Temecula, CA Supercharger. We left the Tesla Model S 75D set at 90% because there is no need to wait around for the extra time to get that last 10% anyway. We only missed the one Supercharger in north Las Vegas because we wanted to stop at the one close to the airport, Las Vegas south. We would stop it at 80% then on to the next station. We very much enjoyed our drive, meeting many other Tesla owners. We ended up spending more time at most stations than we had planned just chatting with the folks.

We found ourselves driving much faster than we had planned, just following the flow of traffic. We LOVE the AP2. It took some getting used to but eventually we both learned to trust it to make the curves by itself without us taking over. We were set for 7 car lengths spacing but eventually realized that we will need to change that, maybe try 3 and see how it goes. The auto lane change is great. The car already had the 17.17.17 update installed. We do hope that future updates will help to smooth out the driving around curves, but the jerking was not too bad, considering that we could just let it go and do it's thing and still get us home safe.

We only had one leg that gave us worry. We had stopped the charge at 70% in Green River, UT, thinking that the rated 181 mile range would be enough to get us the 124 miles we needed with a little reserve until the next Supercharger in Richfield, UT. After all, we did have 57 miles more than we needed, right? Well, what we did not (read that to mean me, not my wife) account for was the terrain and wind. We were happily driving along with AP going 80 mph up, then up, then up some more. There is a lot of high mountain passes on this route. Beautiful though it was, even at night, it is very high. Also we were experiencing very strong head winds. Now in the usual rented cars we take our cross country trips in we can feel the wind, hear it even. NOT in the Tesla S. It was so smooth and quite. Such a joy to drive in. Okay, back to the story. Anyway, we were happily driving (meaning me for this leg), using the AP2. Every once in a while I would check the Remaining Miles, and compare it to the miles needed to drive to get to the Richfield, UT Supercharger. I began to notice that our reserve of 57 miles kept reducing. Then the GPS on the touch-screen, along with the dash GPS started giving me the message that I needed to slow down to 60 mph to make it to our next stop. Well when did I ever listen to sound advice. I was not going to let some computer tell me what to do. So on I drove at 80 mph (this was the posted speed limit, by the way), but I was continuing to watch the dwindling reserve while AP2 was continuing to safely drive us along the freeway. Eventually I started having visions of spending hours waiting on a tow truck, in the middle of the night, just to drag us to the next Supercharger. Therefore when the reserve reached 30 miles I slowed down 5 mph, to 75. When the reserve reached 25 miles I slowed down another 5 mph, to 70. This was a little better, but it kept dropping. By this time we were past the summit and on our way down so it should give us lots more range. However, the headwind was not helping us at all. At 20 miles reserve another 5 mph reduction to 65 mph. We were lasting longer at each reduced speed, but still losing reserve. At 15 miles reserve I slowed down another 5 mph to 60. By this time I was wishing that we had waited the extra 10 minutes to charge from 70% to 80%. That extra 25 rated miles would have been useful. Even at 60 mph we were still losing reserve because of the headwind. At 10 miles reserve I again slowed down another 5 mph to 55 mph. As a side note, we do love the AP2 speed adjustment of 1 mph and 5 mph. It makes it so easy to adjust speed. Finally at 55 mph we were able to get better efficiency than rated so the reserve started to grow. I though about increasing speed but decided that the extra time driving slower was not worth the risk of not getting to the station. Well Hallelujah, we made it to the Richfield, UT Supercharger station with a whopping 22 miles remaining (8% of battery). From then on we charged a minimum of 80%, except at Las Vegas south we stopped as soon as we got back from the bathroom and the car was at 66%. We only had 36 miles to Primm, NV. At Primm we went to the MacDonalds for breakfast so the car was almost 90% when we returned. We waited a couple of minutes for it to finish, then left for Barstow, CA., 119 miles away.

Overall, we are very happy with our new Tesla, and are looking forward to the next 15,000 miles or so of trips we will be using it for in the next 3 months.

Concerning the Supercharger speeds, I was looking forward to getting 120Kw for the first 50% of charge, but was disappointed. It must be with the 90 or 100Kwh models that get that speed. The highest speed we got was 99kw, but usually 97 or 98kw below 50% battery charge. From above 50% the speed dropped. I tried to record speed at each 5% mark but missed some when we left the car to eat or use the restroom. I will continue to plot our Supercharger speeds as we continue our travels in the next few months. We did notice that every Supercharger was different, but within a close range of speed. I will post what data I have now.

Below 50% charge: 96 to 99Kw
55% - 80 to 87Kw
60% - 72 to 81Kw
65% - 64 to 78Kw
70% - 56 to 66Kw
75% - 43 to 56Kw
80% - 36 to 44Kw
85% - 29 to 36Kw
90% - 25 to 30Kw
I will update this list as more data is gathered on our next trip.

The slowest charge, and the station furtherest from the freeway, was St. George, UT. Also at St. George we were not able to find restroom until the Starbucks opened up at 5am. Because of this we stayed plugged in until the full 90% charge was achieved while we were away from the car. The GPS got us to every station, but we did have to search in the dark before we saw a few of them. Still, overall we were very happy with our experience.

On a side note, we have learned to use "Hypermileing" techniques driving our Leaf. We try to drive only 55 or 60 mph on the freeway, Occasionally we go faster, but only if we are in a big hurry and a short trip. With the Tesla I thought about trying to limit our speed to 60 mph on the trip back to conserve energy. However, since I needed to get back home to teach a class Wednesday night I felt it best to give the Tesla a real world test run. Most drivers of gas cars seem to push the limit of speed. If EVs are to gain general acceptance then they must meet these needs, even if that is not the most efficient method. Very few drivers are thinking about conserving. They just want to conserve their time and never mind what fuel or energy they waste. Because of this, I set the Tesla limit at 5 mph over speed limit. However, on the entire trip our fastest cruising speed was 80 mph.


Sounds like you got a lot more out of the experience than just a car! As far as charging speeds, I have heard of several instances when the max speed was not always available and they couldn't tell me why
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles. 2016 S30; 18,297 miles. 363 GIDs, Ahr 82.34, Hx; 100.00% kwh 28.1 QCs 165, L2's 190
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co2112
Posts: 51
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Delivery Date: 02 Jun 2015
Leaf Number: 009322
Location: Sacramento, CA

Re: Official Tesla Model S thread

Fri May 19, 2017 7:17 am

Thanks for the write-up looking forward to the day of not having to worry too much about range and speed.
2011 Black SL

2013 Rav4 EV - 2263

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EVDRIVER
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Re: Official Tesla Model S thread

Fri May 19, 2017 7:46 am

Graffi wrote:
Concerning the Supercharger speeds, I was looking forward to getting 120Kw for the first 50% of charge, but was disappointed. It must be with the 90 or 100Kwh models that get that speed. The highest speed we got was 99kw, but usually 97 or 98kw below 50% battery charge. From above 50% the speed dropped. I tried to record speed at each 5% mark but missed some when we left the car to eat or use the restroom. I will continue to plot our Supercharger speeds as we continue our travels in the next few months. We did notice that every Supercharger was different, but within a close range of speed. I will post what data I have now.

Below 50% charge: 96 to 99Kw
55% - 80 to 87Kw
60% - 72 to 81Kw
65% - 64 to 78Kw
70% - 56 to 66Kw
75% - 43 to 56Kw
80% - 36 to 44Kw
85% - 29 to 36Kw
90% - 25 to 30Kw
I will update this list as more data is gathered on our next trip.


I have never seen more than 117kw on an 85 pack and I drop in at under 20.

SageBrush
Posts: 856
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Official Tesla Model S thread

Fri May 19, 2017 2:30 pm

Graffi wrote:Below 50% charge: 96 to 99Kw
55% - 80 to 87Kw
60% - 72 to 81Kw
65% - 64 to 78Kw
70% - 56 to 66Kw
75% - 43 to 56Kw
80% - 36 to 44Kw
85% - 29 to 36Kw
90% - 25 to 30Kw
I will update this list as more data is gathered on our next trip.

Tesla Bjorn has an interesting video up on youtube comparing his Model X 90 kwh that is restricted to no more than 90 kW, to another Tesla with no maximum power restriction. 20% to 80% was a matter of ~ 4 minutes difference. Arithmetic says it should be more but the car tapers the charge faster in the unrestricted car. I presume this is related to battery temperature control but whatever the reason the fastest charging cars end up with very little time advantage if you are taking on ~ 50 kWh.

I think I read that 70 mph driving gives the best overall distance per time. If the superchargers are spaced e.g. 100 miles apart and the car moves 4 miles per kWh, you can charge from ~ 15% for 25 - 30 kWh in about 20 minutes and end up with net travelling speed of 54 mph after you use up the previous full overnight charge. That does not sound great but the first 200 segment of the trip is from the night charge and the last segment ends on an empty battery so it works out to somewhere in the range of 500 miles, 60 minutes of charging, and 7 hours of driving for a net average speed of 62 mph.
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

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jlv
Posts: 461
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Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2014
Leaf Number: 424487
Location: Massachusetts

Re: Official Tesla Model S thread

Mon May 22, 2017 10:22 am

Graffi wrote:Concerning the Supercharger speeds, I was looking forward to getting 120Kw for the first 50% of charge, but was disappointed. It must be with the 90 or 100Kwh models that get that speed. The highest speed we got was 99kw, but usually 97 or 98kw below 50% battery charge.

I was quite unhappy to find that the 75 and under was limited in SuperCharging speeds (as I understand it, in the 90 and 100kwH packs there is an additional bank, which allows them to accept more current). Had I known this ahead of time, I would have easily opted for the 90D instead of the 75D.

Re: hypermiling

What I've found is that you want to arrive at the SC with as little left in the pack as possible, so as to get the fastest charge. And then you only want to charge enough to be able to reach the next SC on your trip. Whereas with the LEAF I tend to keep it at 60-65MPH on the highway, with the Tesla (when going to a SC), I drive with traffic and don't worry about it. If that means 75-80MPH, then that's what I do (as long as I'll reach the SC).
'13 SL+Prem (mfg 12/13, leased 4/14, bought 5/17)Tesla S 75D (3/17)
Model 3 reservation
(Probably no LEAF2 for me)

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