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RegGuheert
Posts: 6332
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:12 am
Delivery Date: 16 Mar 2012
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: Tesla Semi Truck

Mon Nov 27, 2017 1:16 pm

DanCar wrote:https://seekingalpha.com/article/4127493-tesla-truck-implications
... the truck can handle 8 such connections. 8 x 216 = 1,728kW, or slightly above the needed 1,536kW to provide the 400 mile range in 30 minutes, with no breakthroughs. It’s simply a multiplication of what already exists. 12 charging modules (using the latest 72 amp module) x 8 Superchargers.
I was thinking they would use four, but eight makes more sense, at least given the current state of the technology.

But let's take a look at the impact of charging trucks at 1.5 MW:

Assume 100% charger efficiency and that a given truck stop is provisioned with three-phase 480 VAC service. That service can provide about 20 MW of power. Let's assume the truck stop operations only use about 500 kW, leaving about 19.5 MW to charge the trucks. That means that the truck stop can handle a MAXIMUM of 13 trucks charging at a given time. With some intelligence in the chargers more trucks can share the available power with all of them charging more slowly.

I doubt that most truck stops have this much electricity available to them, but adding this capability should be possible at many locations. Then the next level of question becomes how much additional power the high-voltage lines that run along the interstates can handle. I'm thinking about places like the east coast of Florida where the power lines run right along the interstate. How many 20-MW loads can you drop onto the system before you need major upgrades to the lines.

Finally, how much PV power can a typical truckstop install in order to minimize their electricity costs? I'll guess most can install no more than about 10 MW, so the power will need to come from elsewhere, even during the daytime on sunny days. In the future when the goal is to run these trucks 24/7, I wonder if there will be strategies in place to limit most or all charging to daylight hours.

Let's be clear: These are challenges which will not be easily resolved. It will be relatively easy to add the first BEV trucks, but it will become more and more of a challenge in order to grow this idea to a significant percent of the overall fleet. I'm confident that it will be done eventually, but I also think it will take several decades to accomplish.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

DanCar
Posts: 984
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 12:00 am
Delivery Date: 10 Mar 2013
Location: SF Bay area, 94043

Re: Tesla Semi Truck

Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:00 pm

Batteries can supplement the power issue. Contrary to what seeking alpha said, 4 maybe more likely. As E-trucks get more popular truck stops can be wired with higher powered lines.
Last edited by DanCar on Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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RegGuheert
Posts: 6332
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Re: Tesla Semi Truck

Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:04 pm

DanCar wrote:Batteries can supplement the power issue.
Not for a 24/7 load.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

GRA
Posts: 9498
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Tesla Semi Truck

Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:13 pm

Via IEVS:
Tesla Semi Will Transport Cargo Between Fremont And Gigafactory
https://insideevs.com/tesla-semi-cargo-transport-fremont-gigafactory/
IMO an excellent use for the 500 mile version. The 300 mile one won't have the necessary range (259 miles) to make the climb eastbound, although it could manage the westbound trip (maybe not in winter, with chains and I-80 shutdowns).
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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EVDRIVER
Moderator
Posts: 6493
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:51 am

Re: Tesla Semi Truck

Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:59 pm

RegGuheert wrote:
DanCar wrote:https://seekingalpha.com/article/4127493-tesla-truck-implications
... the truck can handle 8 such connections. 8 x 216 = 1,728kW, or slightly above the needed 1,536kW to provide the 400 mile range in 30 minutes, with no breakthroughs. It’s simply a multiplication of what already exists. 12 charging modules (using the latest 72 amp module) x 8 Superchargers.
I was thinking they would use four, but eight makes more sense, at least given the current state of the technology.

But let's take a look at the impact of charging trucks at 1.5 MW:

Assume 100% charger efficiency and that a given truck stop is provisioned with three-phase 480 VAC service. That service can provide about 20 MW of power. Let's assume the truck stop operations only use about 500 kW, leaving about 19.5 MW to charge the trucks. That means that the truck stop can handle a MAXIMUM of 13 trucks charging at a given time. With some intelligence in the chargers more trucks can share the available power with all of them charging more slowly.

I doubt that most truck stops have this much electricity available to them, but adding this capability should be possible at many locations. Then the next level of question becomes how much additional power the high-voltage lines that run along the interstates can handle. I'm thinking about places like the east coast of Florida where the power lines run right along the interstate. How many 20-MW loads can you drop onto the system before you need major upgrades to the lines.

Finally, how much PV power can a typical truckstop install in order to minimize their electricity costs? I'll guess most can install no more than about 10 MW, so the power will need to come from elsewhere, even during the daytime on sunny days. In the future when the goal is to run these trucks 24/7, I wonder if there will be strategies in place to limit most or all charging to daylight hours.

Let's be clear: These are challenges which will not be easily resolved. It will be relatively easy to add the first BEV trucks, but it will become more and more of a challenge in order to grow this idea to a significant percent of the overall fleet. I'm confident that it will be done eventually, but I also think it will take several decades to accomplish.


Come on, solar panels on the roof and sides with fan generators under the grill will solve these issues. Faster you go the more energy to the pack.

hyperionmark
Posts: 202
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:46 am
Delivery Date: 31 Jan 2017
Location: Nebraska

Re: Tesla Semi Truck

Tue Nov 28, 2017 5:12 am

well played

GRA
Posts: 9498
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Tesla Semi Truck

Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:36 pm

Via IEVS:
UK Truckers Knock Tesla Semi, Performance Isn’t Important
https://insideevs.com/uk-truckers-knock-tesla-semi-says-performance-isnt-important/

. . . the RHA isn’t convinced of Tesla’s “claimed” figures nor does the association even believe that the semi’s performance figures are necessarily applicable to the segment. The association’s policy advisor, Rod McKenzie, told Autocar:

    “Hauliers don’t care about these claimed figures. They’re not relevant to us. We’re not looking for performance, not least because lorries’ speed is limited to 56mph. . . .”

However, in the end, McKenzie does believe that electric semis are the way of the future. He just doesn’t see it as something that can happen so soon. McKenzie shared:

    “My gut feeling is that they are 20 years away.”
As an industry expert, he points to cost, range, and cargo capacity as key factors, which will determine the eventual adoption of electric trucking. McKenzie elaborated:

    “I’m worried about the price point. The Tesla Semi is likely to cost more than £200,000 (~$266,000), which is beyond the budget of hauliers in the UK. A lorry here costs £85,000 ($113,000). And with the industry making margins of 2-3%, we can’t afford that extra cost.

    The Tesla Semi has a reported range of 500 miles. That’s quite a lot less than a diesel lorry. It means charging. First of all, where are the charging points? There aren’t many around. And lorries can be filled up with diesel very quickly. Musk said there would be quick-charging in 30 minutes but I think we need to see charging times in real terms. Any loss of time greatly reduces our operational efficiency.”
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

lorenfb
Posts: 1845
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: Tesla Semi Truck

Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:27 pm

GRA wrote:Via IEVS:
UK Truckers Knock Tesla Semi, Performance Isn’t Important
https://insideevs.com/uk-truckers-knock-tesla-semi-says-performance-isnt-important/

. . . the RHA isn’t convinced of Tesla’s “claimed” figures nor does the association even believe that the semi’s performance figures are necessarily applicable to the segment. The association’s policy advisor, Rod McKenzie, told Autocar:

    “Hauliers don’t care about these claimed figures. They’re not relevant to us. We’re not looking for performance, not least because lorries’ speed is limited to 56mph. . . .”

However, in the end, McKenzie does believe that electric semis are the way of the future. He just doesn’t see it as something that can happen so soon. McKenzie shared:

    “My gut feeling is that they are 20 years away.”
As an industry expert, he points to cost, range, and cargo capacity as key factors, which will determine the eventual adoption of electric trucking. McKenzie elaborated:

    “I’m worried about the price point. The Tesla Semi is likely to cost more than £200,000 (~$266,000), which is beyond the budget of hauliers in the UK. A lorry here costs £85,000 ($113,000). And with the industry making margins of 2-3%, we can’t afford that extra cost.

    The Tesla Semi has a reported range of 500 miles. That’s quite a lot less than a diesel lorry. It means charging. First of all, where are the charging points? There aren’t many around. And lorries can be filled up with diesel very quickly. Musk said there would be quick-charging in 30 minutes but I think we need to see charging times in real terms. Any loss of time greatly reduces our operational efficiency.”


As some awake to reality!
Leaf SL MY 9/13: 70K miles, 49 Ahrs, 5.1 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 charges to 100% > 1000, max battery temp < 95F (35C), min discharge point > 20 Ahrs

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jlv
Posts: 876
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Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2014
Leaf Number: 424487
Location: Massachusetts

Re: Tesla Semi Truck

Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:54 am

It's good to know an industry expert says they are 20 years away.
LEAF '13 SL+Prem (mfg 12/13, leased 4/14, bought 5/17, sold 11/18) 34K mi, AHr 58, SOH 87%
Tesla S 75D (3/17) 29K mi
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GetOffYourGas
Posts: 1943
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:56 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2012
Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: Tesla Semi Truck

Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:07 pm

It seems to me that he's right and wrong at the same time. They probably are about 20 years away from total electrification (including heavy-duty long-haul trucking). But he's wrong if he's saying they're 20 years away from having something very useful. The Tesla Semi has a whole host of applications for which it is well suited today. Tesla will have no problem selling as many as they can build. Once they get through "production hell" for the Model 3, and if they can do the same with the Semi...
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV (traded for Bolt)
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)
2017 Bolt Premier

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