GRA
Posts: 8855
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Subaru Chief Designer Says Automakers First EV Will Be Based Off Existing Car, Coming 2020

Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:50 pm

SageBrush wrote:
GRA wrote:the Prime wouldn't work for me owing to its lack of a true hold mode - I want to be able to control when and where to emit as above.

Are you sure about that ?

Yes. It wouldn't be acceptable to me for other reasons as well, but the lack of a true hold mode is one of them. HEV mode alone doesn't cut it. For the same reason, I'd want a 2013+ Volt rather than a 2011-2012, as only the former have a true hold mode (the latter just had mountain mode). But unless my Forester craps out and dies (unlikely) or it gets totaled, I'll wait to replace it until a full ZEV meets my needs.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

SageBrush
Posts: 2586
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Subaru Chief Designer Says Automakers First EV Will Be Based Off Existing Car, Coming 2020

Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:18 pm

GRA wrote:
SageBrush wrote:
GRA wrote:the Prime wouldn't work for me owing to its lack of a true hold mode - I want to be able to control when and where to emit as above.

Are you sure about that ?

Yes.

Well then, continue to bask in your ignorance
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

GRA
Posts: 8855
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Subaru Chief Designer Says Automakers First EV Will Be Based Off Existing Car, Coming 2020

Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:26 pm

SageBrush wrote:
GRA wrote:
SageBrush wrote:Are you sure about that ?

Yes.

Well then, continue to bask in your ignorance

I've read reviews and your own accounts of how the Prime's various modes work as well as the owner's manual here: https://www.toyota.com/t3Portal/document/om-s/OM47A88U/pdf/OM47A88U.pdf#page=79, and none of them indicates that it has a true hold mode; Mode 4 (Hybrid battery charge mode) is the closest it comes. But feel free to enlighten me.

BTW, why the snark? I'm happy to be educated when I'm wrong on a matter of fact, so making a sarcastic remark is not only unnecessary but counter-productive.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

SageBrush
Posts: 2586
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Subaru Chief Designer Says Automakers First EV Will Be Based Off Existing Car, Coming 2020

Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:23 pm

What you call 'snark' is my annoyance at your hubris.
You misunderstand Prime operation, and specifically its HOLD mode. I'll leave it at that.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

GRA
Posts: 8855
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Subaru Chief Designer Says Automakers First EV Will Be Based Off Existing Car, Coming 2020

Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:33 pm

SageBrush wrote:What you call 'snark' is my annoyance at your hubris.
You misunderstand Prime operation, and specifically its HOLD mode. I'll leave it at that.

And I've asked you to correct my misunderstanding, if that's in fact the case, so how does that constitute hubris? If you don't wish to do this for my benefit (as noted, the Prime wouldn't be my choice for other reasons as well), then why not do it for others? The Prime has 4 modes, and both Mode 1 (EV) and Mode 2 (EV Auto) are out as far as hold modes. Mode 3 (HV mode) comes close, but still falls short of a true hold mode. Per the manual:

Switching to HV mode when driving on a highway or
when driving uphill is recommended in order to conserve battery
power.[/b]

That sounds like a true Hold mode, but note the asterisk:

*: The EV driving range may reduce even after switching to HV mode.

The description of HV mode goes into more detail:
When in HV mode
The vehicle can be used in the same way as a standard hybrid
vehicle.

In HV mode, controls are primarily carried out as follows in accordance
with the driving conditions.

The gasoline engine stops* when the vehicle is stopped.

During start off, the electric motor (traction motor) drives the vehicle.

During normal driving, the gasoline engine and electric motor
(traction motor) are controlled effectively, and the vehicle is
driven with optimum fuel efficiency. Also, when necessary, the
electric motor (traction motor) operates as an electrical generator
to charge the hybrid battery (traction battery).

When the accelerator pedal is depressed heavily, drive force
from both the gasoline engine and the electric motor (traction
motor) is used to accelerate
.


Thus, while close it's not a true hold mode, where use of the battery is entirely under the driver's control and no matter what you do with the accelerator the battery will never be used. I want that level of control (I've also always driven manual transmission cars for similar reasons, and want gears and/or regen levels I can select rather than CVTs and being limited to just one or two levels of regen). And Mode 4, Hybrid battery (traction battery) charge mode only makes sense if you're heading into a ZEV-only zone and you don't have adequate battery charge, but the last thing I want to do is use a gas-fueled ICE to charge a battery while driving, and there are currently almost no (none?) ZEV-only zones in the U.S. to make that necessary.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 8855
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Subaru Crosstrek PHEV

Fri May 11, 2018 4:13 pm

via ABG:
2019 Subaru Crosstrek PHEV will be company's first plug-in hybrid
It uses Toyota hybrid tech
https://www.autoblog.com/2018/05/11/2019-subaru-crosstrek-phev/

. . . Subaru did reveal that the new PHEV is coming soon, with an on-sale date at the end of 2018. As such we should see photos and more details in the near future. While there aren't many plug-in hybrid compact crossovers, there are a few, and they're fairly compelling. The closest competition will be the Kia Niro PHEV, which has a claimed range of 26 miles and a solid 46 mpg when running with the gas engine. It starts at $28,840. Another potential competitor is the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV, which provides 22 miles of electric-only range and a less impressive 25 mpg with the gas engine. The Outlander does boast more cargo space thanks to its bigger body, but also has a higher base price of $35,915.

I've altered the thread title and edited the first post accordingly. I'm kind of glad they chose the Impreza (Crosstrek) rather than the Forester or Outback. While I have a Forester, it has undergone a couple of generations of size growth since mine, and it's longer now than I would like. Even the current Crosstrek is slightly longer than my 2003 Forester, but still under the 180" max. length that I prefer.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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