GRA
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BMW Batteries Have 15-Year Life In EVs

Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:15 pm

Via IEVS: https://insideevs.com/bmw-batteries-have-15-year-life-in-cars/

BMW’s head of battery development, Andreas Raith, interviewed by the CarAdvice, says that lithium-ion batteries in all-electric and plug-in hybrid cars are designed for “15 years and beyond.”

There is nothing to worry about as BMW took a conservative approach to achieve 70% of battery capacity after 15 years. The field data collected so far indicates that results are better than envisioned.

Life-expectancy for BEVs and PHEVs is on par with ICE cars.

    To make batteries durable, BMW utilized thermal management system with liquid cooling.

Andreas Raith said:

    “It’s not a marketing statement, those batteries are designed to last as long as the vehicle,”

    “We can prove that with the field data that we see today coming in from our existing fleet of plug-in hybrids… it’s fair to say and I think it’s a statement for the entire industry and community, everyone is so concerned about [battery] life time and the engineering community as a whole takes a very conservative approach to preserving those batteries.”

    “BMW specification in case of durability is no different between combustion engines or battery driven vehicles. . . .”

Now, will they warranty them for that?
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

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Jedlacks
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Re: BMW Batteries Have 15-Year Life In EVs

Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:21 pm

I seriously doubt the current version of i3 cars, BEV or REX, will last that long.
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cwerdna
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Re: BMW Batteries Have 15-Year Life In EVs

Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:26 pm

Jedlacks wrote:I seriously doubt the current version of i3 cars, BEV or REX, will last that long.

I agree, esp. the unreliable REx.

I suspect, the current or next owners of the REx will be so fed up w/its lack of reliability that they'll junk the car before 15 years once something expensive that's out of warranty fails. And, if a BEV or REx version hits motor mount breakage outside of warranty... The resulting repairs will be way too costly to be worth fixing. I've seen the receipts of the aftermath from that.

I've seen a few cases on the i3 where some other failure forces the dealer to replace the entire battery pack.

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GRA
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Re: BMW Batteries Have 15-Year Life In EVs

Tue May 29, 2018 7:11 pm

Via IEVS:
BMW i3 Samsung SDI 94 Ah Battery Rated For 524,000 Miles
https://insideevs.com/lets-look-at-the-specs-of-the-samsung-sdi-94-ah-battery/

. . . let’s look at the specs of the 94 Ah cells, used in the BMW i3. These cells are considered to be among the longest life-cycle cells available.

Samsung SDI expects up to 4,600 charging cycles at 25ºC to End-Of-Life (EOL), which in the case of batteries is the point when capacity decreases to 80% (battery still can be used, but is generally not desirable in cars any longer).

Since the BMW i3 (33 kWh) is rated at 114 miles (183 km), 4,600 cycles would be more than 524,000 miles (more than 843,000 km).

It’s one of the best results in the industry and it’s totally doable because the i3 pack is equipped with a thermal management system. . . .

There are graphs etc.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

LeftieBiker
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Re: BMW Batteries Have 15-Year Life In EVs

Tue May 29, 2018 7:32 pm

These estimates and claims are always good for a chuckle. BMW should make Chinese scooters!
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mux
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Re: BMW Batteries Have 15-Year Life In EVs

Wed May 30, 2018 2:55 am

This really doesn't strike me as controversial at all? I've been working with BMW's and Mercedes' modules from crashed cars and they all pretty much have no degradation, even after significant mileage. They seem to be holding up exactly the same as Panasonic's VW modules and Mitsubishi's Outlander modules - no degradation after hundreds of cycles. Considering Tesla has already shown that NCA can manage cycle life that would translate into about ~300kmi until 80% SoH, I don't see any reason to suspect Panasonic can't deliver on that kind of life in a well-managed battery either.

It's MUCH more likely that some ancillary system fails prematurely, aside from the many mechanical failures around cars. Coolant pumps, coolant leaks, that kind of stuff.

Edit: don't use the Leaf battery as any kind of yardstick for lithium ion battery degradation in cars. They're the absolute worst, in the same class as stuff like Th!nk City as far as the chemistry goes. The majority of automakers don't use AESC's batteries.

LeftieBiker
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Re: BMW Batteries Have 15-Year Life In EVs

Wed May 30, 2018 3:12 am

This really doesn't strike me as controversial at all? I've been working with BMW's and Mercedes' modules from crashed cars and they all pretty much have no degradation, even after significant mileage. They seem to be holding up exactly the same as Panasonic's VW modules and Mitsubishi's Outlander modules - no degradation after hundreds of cycles.


How are you using them? Laboratory battery cycles almost never translate to real world cycles.
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GRA
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Re: BMW Batteries Have 15-Year Life In EVs

Wed May 30, 2018 7:16 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:These estimates and claims are always good for a chuckle. BMW should make Chinese scooters!

Sure, YMMV and lab results aren't the real world, but it is indicative of what's possible. One half or even one third of that IRL would be terrific.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

LeftieBiker
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Re: BMW Batteries Have 15-Year Life In EVs

Wed May 30, 2018 8:06 pm

I'll bet that if someone can post Nissan's lab test results for the Canary pack, that it would look great on paper as well.
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mux
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Re: BMW Batteries Have 15-Year Life In EVs

Wed May 30, 2018 10:10 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
This really doesn't strike me as controversial at all? I've been working with BMW's and Mercedes' modules from crashed cars and they all pretty much have no degradation, even after significant mileage. They seem to be holding up exactly the same as Panasonic's VW modules and Mitsubishi's Outlander modules - no degradation after hundreds of cycles.


How are you using them? Laboratory battery cycles almost never translate to real world cycles.


In cars :P Like, they are literally from insurance car sales and I've yet to encounter a pack with a state of health measurably different from 100%.

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