webeleafowners
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Re: Kia Niro BEV

Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:12 pm

GRA wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
webeleafowners wrote:
I’m not familiar with the US market. But in Canada the most popular non Tesla EV is the Leaf so all public DC fast charge locations include Chademo. What are the most popular non Tesla EV’s in the US? Obviously not a Leaf if Chademo is going away there.


Discounting EA's obvious bias, Chademo is doing just fine.

The cars aren't. There are only two cars currently available here that use CHAdeMO, the LEAF and the Outlander PHEV, both Japanese brands. More importantly, look at the list of non-Tesla 200+ mile BEVs currently available here.

CCS: i-Pace; e-Tron; Bolt; Kona; Niro.
CHAdeMO: LEAF.

Even the short-range Honda Clarity uses CCS. The CCS Soul will arrive as a 2020, and VW Group will be introducing a whole slew of BEVs using CCS over the next few years, as will the other European manufacturers. EA has no incentive to build more CHAdeMO stalls than they are required to, has no plans to upgrade them to provide more than 50kW, and no one is building QC sites at a profit, so unless some manufacturer like Toyota were to step up and build a network similar to EA's as a necessary marketing exercise ala' Tesla, CHAdeMO will be limited to intra-regional use - almost no one's going to count on the single EA CHAdeMO QC per site to be operational and available when they need it for a road trip.

Maybe if China were to start importing cars here in a big way CHAdeMO would be viable for the long-term, but given Chinese cars' current lack of production quality and refinement as well as the tariff fight, that's not going to happen for a while if ever.


EA is an American thing I guess. Are they pretty dominant as far as the number of installations go? You would think that Chargepoint etc would want to appeal to as many customers as possible. Interesting times ahead. But for the time being it’s 50-50 Chademo/CCS here.
2015 Smart Electric Drive convertible.
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EV only Family...well except for the big diesel motorhome. :shock:

GRA
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Re: Kia Niro BEV

Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:21 pm

webeleafowners wrote:EA is an American thing I guess. Are they pretty dominant as far as the number of installations go? You would think that Chargepoint etc would want to appeal to as many customers as possible. Interesting times ahead. But for the time being it’s 50-50 Chademo/CCS here.

EA is "Electrify America", and as far as non-Tesla QC sites for road trips, yes, they're dominant here (233 sites as of today with more to come), all courtesy of Dieselgate. See https://www.electrifyamerica.com/locate-charger

There's also EC, "Electrify Canada", but they're more recently established and have yet to open any sites, and I don't know what the Canadian and Provincial Governments will require of them re the CCS/CHAdeMO split. EC website: https://www.electrify-canada.ca/index

Map: https://www.electrify-canada.ca/locate-charger

As you can see, BC and AB along with ON/QC will be getting the initial sites.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

webeleafowners
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Re: Kia Niro BEV

Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:56 pm

Good to know. Interesting.
2015 Smart Electric Drive convertible.
2016 Nissan Leaf SV 30KWh
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GetOffYourGas
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Re: Kia Niro BEV

Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:04 am

GRA wrote:
webeleafowners wrote:EA is an American thing I guess. Are they pretty dominant as far as the number of installations go? You would think that Chargepoint etc would want to appeal to as many customers as possible. Interesting times ahead. But for the time being it’s 50-50 Chademo/CCS here.

EA is "Electrify America", and as far as non-Tesla QC sites for road trips, yes, they're dominant here (233 sites as of today with more to come), all courtesy of Dieselgate. See https://www.electrifyamerica.com/locate-charger


At least for now, EVGo actually has more sites* than EA, so in one way, they may be considered "dominant", since they have the largest non-Tesla charging network in the US. Unfortunately, most of those sites are "50kW" chargers as opposed to the 150-350kW (CCS) chargers that EA is installing.

Of course, EA is growing much faster than EVGo, and it's only a matter of time before they are overtaken.

*The catch here is that each EVGo site only has one dual-plug (CCS + CHAdeMO) charger. EA may have more actual chargers in the ground today, I don't know. My point is that EVGo is doing the most to keep CHAdeMO "alive" in the states.
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV (traded for Bolt)
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)
2017 Bolt Premier

DaveinOlyWA
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Re: Kia Niro BEV

Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:53 am

EVGO no longer opens single station sites in WA any more. They are all 2+ dual format stations along with 2 J1772 plugs. EA may have 6 stations but still no more than a single plug to me. Add to that; already several cases of a single CCS car charging on the dual format station and the likely reason why??

Because its the station closest to the front door of the store... :evil:
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 15,000 miles, 478 GIDs, 37.0 kwh 109.81 Ahr , SOH 94.61, Hx 120.15
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DougWantsALeaf
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Re: Kia Niro BEV

Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:36 am

I don't want to discount the time difference between a 50KW and 150/350KW charger, of course its less. When we get to 200 kWh cars, it becomes a very big deal. But at 40 and 60 kWh, a 53KW charge rate feels plenty fast. In the couple times I have used the Chademo (EA and Nissan), usually the car is at 80% before I can eat and finish my coffee. Certainly guess its different if you are just watching the charge.
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GetOffYourGas
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Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: Kia Niro BEV

Tue Jul 02, 2019 3:33 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:EVGO no longer opens single station sites in WA any more. They are all 2+ dual format stations along with 2 J1772 plugs. EA may have 6 stations but still no more than a single plug to me. Add to that; already several cases of a single CCS car charging on the dual format station and the likely reason why??

Because its the station closest to the front door of the store... :evil:


Yes, the west coast is far ahead of the east coast regarding all things EV. Meanwhile I have never seen an EVGo station (in person) with more than 1 CHAdeMO / 1 CCS. Most are 100A, a few are 120-125A. I've only seen two locations that have a J1772 option. The good news is that they are usually located far from the front door of the store, so at least they aren't ICE'd.

I think most CCS-car drivers aren't aware of the facts that 1) EA only has 1 CHAdeMO and 2) if the corresponding CCS is being used, the CHAdeMO cannot be. It's at least partly a problem of education.
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV (traded for Bolt)
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)
2017 Bolt Premier

GRA
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Re: Kia Niro BEV

Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:56 pm

GetOffYourGas wrote:At least for now, EVGo actually has more sites* than EA, so in one way, they may be considered "dominant", since they have the largest non-Tesla charging network in the US. Unfortunately, most of those sites are "50kW" chargers as opposed to the 150-350kW (CCS) chargers that EA is installing.

Of course, EA is growing much faster than EVGo, and it's only a matter of time before they are overtaken.

*The catch here is that each EVGo site only has one dual-plug (CCS + CHAdeMO) charger. EA may have more actual chargers in the ground today, I don't know. My point is that EVGo is doing the most to keep CHAdeMO "alive" in the states.

Almost a certainty, as the typical EA highway site has at least 3 CCS and 1 dual CCS/CHAdeMO, while some sites have up to 9 CCS + the one dual stall. Even the "urban" sites will have two CCS, 1 dual and 1 L2.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13870
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Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Kia Niro BEV

Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:38 am

GetOffYourGas wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:EVGO no longer opens single station sites in WA any more. They are all 2+ dual format stations along with 2 J1772 plugs. EA may have 6 stations but still no more than a single plug to me. Add to that; already several cases of a single CCS car charging on the dual format station and the likely reason why??

Because its the station closest to the front door of the store... :evil:


Yes, the west coast is far ahead of the east coast regarding all things EV. Meanwhile I have never seen an EVGo station (in person) with more than 1 CHAdeMO / 1 CCS. Most are 100A, a few are 120-125A. I've only seen two locations that have a J1772 option. The good news is that they are usually located far from the front door of the store, so at least they aren't ICE'd.

I think most CCS-car drivers aren't aware of the facts that 1) EA only has 1 CHAdeMO and 2) if the corresponding CCS is being used, the CHAdeMO cannot be. It's at least partly a problem of education.


Only about 3 years ahead! :)

Then we only had a single 100 amp station but then most (one simply has no space to expand) went to 2 or 3 stations and bumped to 125ish amps. That process took a year to cover our region. But all 3 new installs are 2 or more.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 15,000 miles, 478 GIDs, 37.0 kwh 109.81 Ahr , SOH 94.61, Hx 120.15
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DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 525
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Re: Kia Niro BEV

Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:54 am

In the EPA ratings, how does the Niro have a negative Coef B (lbf/mph) rating? (Telsa 3 has a negative rating as well).

https://iaspub.epa.gov/otaqpub/display_ ... 390&flag=1
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Max distance on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
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