SageBrush
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Re: Kia Niro BEV

Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:43 am

DougWantsALeaf wrote:In the EPA ratings, how does the Niro have a negative Coef B (lbf/mph) rating? (Telsa 3 has a negative rating as well).

https://iaspub.epa.gov/otaqpub/display_ ... 390&flag=1

I told you already. It is a best fit polynomial. The coefficients do not map to actual forces.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
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DougWantsALeaf
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Re: Kia Niro BEV

Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:33 pm

Sagebrush,

You did tell me. What I am trying to figure out is whether the Kona/Niro really do have better overall efficiency at the same CoD, or whether its due to small inaccuracies in the tesing procedure. I have been trying to encourage the EV auto testing shows to do a side by side 55MPH test, but no luck so far. As a relatively experienced EV driver, its not too hard to put any EV EPA rating to shame (ex. I've done 120+ miles to a charge in my 2013 3 years after purchase), but it that isn't what the "normal" driver experiences.

If it is better, which if fine, I want to better understand why (drive train, acceleration curve, weight, wheels, etc...).
2019 SV Plus Silver
2013 Leaf SV
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Max distance on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
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SageBrush
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Re: Kia Niro BEV

Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:21 pm

DougWantsALeaf wrote:If it is better, which if fine, I want to better understand why (drive train, acceleration curve, weight, wheels, etc...).

The EPA drag polynomial cannot be used to answer that question directly, but you can narrow down the suspects:

Track down the tyre RR to calculate road friction;
Calculate air drag from CdA and speed
The difference between that sum and the power graph from the roll down test is the mechanical friction during coasting plus the power drain from being in Ig-on.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 525
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
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Location: Chicago North Side

Re: Kia Niro BEV

Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:09 pm

Was looking at the Kia site. It does look like there are a number of Niro EVs available (in states where they are offered)

Has Kia been able to up its shipments/distribution?

Niro has been getting some additional favorable reviews, with tested range consistently at/above EPA.

Does Kia/Hyundai allow for testing battery capacity/degradation like with Leafspy?
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webeleafowners
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Re: Kia Niro BEV

Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:42 am

DougWantsALeaf wrote:Was looking at the Kia site. It does look like there are a number of Niro EVs available (in states where they are offered)

Has Kia been able to up its shipments/distribution?

Niro has been getting some additional favorable reviews, with tested range consistently at/above EPA.

Does Kia/Hyundai allow for testing battery capacity/degradation like with Leafspy?


For that matter Doug, has Nissan been able to up their production? We checked with our sales dude and our Eplus SL is still on track for feb delivery. We are out of the country till then anyway so no big deal but still. A lot of people are just walking out and buying a Tesla once they get told it’s six months to get a Leaf. I have no problem with that as I think the model 3 is a great car but still, seems Nissan has some untapped demand there. Have they mentioned increasing production at all? This may be a regional problem in B.C. as EV adaptation has gone thru the roof here.

Ours will obviously be a 2020 model. Wonder what the updates will be. There are usually a few every model year.
2015 Smart Electric Drive convertible.
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Leaf15
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Re: Kia Niro BEV

Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:12 am

For those concerned with Niro/Kona efficiency - simple fact to know - Hyundai/Kia EVs are the most efficient EV on the planet at the moment, and in far second place is Tesla Model 3, others are far-far behind. The only difference, if you keep cars for a long time - Hyundai offers unlimited life time warranty on battery and 5 year/unlimited miles power train warranty , while Kia offers only 10 years/100,000 miles battery warranty and 5years/60,000miles power train warranty.
Leaf 2015 SV CPO traded for 2019 Hyundai Ionic Limited

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OrientExpress
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Re: Kia Niro BEV

Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:33 am

Keep in mind that the Kia and Hyundai battery warranties are for workmanship and not for degradation.
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DougWantsALeaf
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Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
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Re: Kia Niro BEV

Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:10 am

Leaf 15. Ok, what does Kia do to achieve that efficiency? It’s not aerodynamics. Is it drivetrain? Just curious where they are getting their gains?
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Leaf15
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Re: Kia Niro BEV

Sun Jul 14, 2019 12:09 pm

DougWantsALeaf wrote:Leaf 15. Ok, what does Kia do to achieve that efficiency? It’s not aerodynamics. Is it drivetrain? Just curious where they are getting their gains?
aerodynamics helps Ioniq a lot, not much to Kona/Niro. As for efficiency of the drivetrain, if you took electrical engineering courses - being electric does not mean being efficient, it is all function of the design and cost. Then comes integration between subsystems. Hyundai/Kia offers heat pump, that is integrated into battery and HVAC loops so it helps with low temp in the winter when all other EV suffers the most. Tesla also wastes a lot of power on computers to keep it running and devours battery even while turned off (0.5-1 kW/h depending what features are on or off), Hyundai/Kia are more efficient in this area by far - it hardly looses any charge over a week, while Tesla looses 2-5% daily just to check once a day battery SOC over the phone.

As for battery - tiny temp sensor would bring perfectly healthy battery to a screeching halt and render it inoperable, cell degradation is non-existent on LG batteries, 2016 Ioniq/Soul EV owners did not detect any degradation after 3 years (nobody would dare to say it about Leaf batteries or even Tesla ones). Also unlike most EV batteries at least Soul/Ioniq EV batteries are serviceable, could not say about Kona/Niro yet. We do have SoulEVSpy android app to check on battery and other internals of the car, so claims are not just made on consumer assessment or guesses.
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LeftieBiker
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Re: Kia Niro BEV

Sun Jul 14, 2019 12:26 pm

2016 IONIQ/Soul EV owners did not detect any degradation after 3 years


That just isn't true. The Soul EV has suffered from similar degradation issues to the Leaf.
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