GRA
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German magazine compares real-world electric-car ranges, efficiencies in cold weather

Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:39 pm

Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

LeftieBiker
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Re: German magazine compares real-world electric-car ranges, efficiencies in cold weather

Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:29 pm

They left out the Leaf, and didn't use Eco mode at all. They also limited seat heaters to 20 minutes...??? Not a great test. Maybe next Winter...
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
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PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

RonDawg
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Re: German magazine compares real-world electric-car ranges, efficiencies in cold weather

Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:39 am

They left out the Leaf likely because they could only get 2017's at the time of the test and the 2018 is going to be markedly different. They also left out the Tesla Model 3 likely because they're a bit of a unicorn right now. The car they should have tested but for some reason didn't was the BMW i3, which to my knowledge is unchanged for 2018.

The test isn't to see who can go the absolute furthest. It's to replicate how the cars are likely going to be used by the average person, especially one who has never used an EV before. For many if not most EV's the Eco mode limits HVAC usage.

It's interesting to note that the Hyundai Ioniq went just 10 miles short of the e-Golf despite having a 22% smaller battery and is about the same size externally, maybe a bit larger. And how the Renault Zoe had 89% of the Ampera-E (Chevy Bolt)'s range with a battery only about 2/3 as large.
Blue Ocean 2012 Leaf SV, lost that 1st bar at 34 months/26,435 miles. Lease returned 2 months later. Final LeafStat figures: 225 Gids, 17.44 kWH, SOC 91.89%, SOH 82.36%, 69.49% HX, 54.57 Ahr, battery temp 61.8 F.
Now driving a 2015 VW eGolf SEL.

GRA
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Re: German magazine compares real-world electric-car ranges, efficiencies in cold weather

Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:10 pm

RonDawg wrote:They left out the Leaf likely because they could only get 2017's at the time of the test and the 2018 is going to be markedly different. They also left out the Tesla Model 3 likely because they're a bit of a unicorn right now. The car they should have tested but for some reason didn't was the BMW i3, which to my knowledge is unchanged for 2018.

The test isn't to see who can go the absolute furthest. It's to replicate how the cars are likely going to be used by the average person, especially one who has never used an EV before. For many if not most EV's the Eco mode limits HVAC usage. <snip>

Right. Eco mode also limits top speed in many BEVs, and as stated in the article speeds were up to 80 mph (I expect it was actually 130km/h, or 80.77 mph).

On a related note,via IEVS see
Tesla Model 3 Range Loss In Bitter Cold – Video
https://insideevs.com/tesla-model-3-range-loss-bitter-cold-video/

and [Model X and LEAF]
Even Negative Temps Don’t Stop Electric Cars – Video
https://insideevs.com/negative-temps-electric-cars-video/
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

LeftieBiker
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Re: German magazine compares real-world electric-car ranges, efficiencies in cold weather

Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:14 pm

I doubt Eco mode use would have been a problem at all, and I KNOW that leaving the seat heaters on - which most people do - would have been no problem.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

GRA
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Re: German magazine compares real-world electric-car ranges, efficiencies in cold weather

Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:51 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:I doubt Eco mode use would have been a problem at all

It certainly does if you want/need to use the HVAC. IIRR, in the LEAF it limits the max. output for those to 1.5kW, versus 6 kW max. in normal mode.

LeftieBiker wrote:and I KNOW that leaving the seat heaters on - which most people do - would have been no problem

What many current BEV owners do is almost certainly unrepresentative of what members of the general public will do. In my ICE, I use the seat heater only until the engine warms up, then turn it off and use the cabin heat as I find that to be more comfortable (that it's also more energy efficient in an ICE is a bonus that I'm aware of, but most people probably wouldn't give that a second thought). I doubt that the typical driver would act differently, as they're used to employing space rather than contact heating almost everywhere else in their lives, and because they're used to having 'free' (waste) heat in their cars.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

LeftieBiker
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Re: German magazine compares real-world electric-car ranges, efficiencies in cold weather

Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:09 pm

It certainly does if you want/need to use the HVAC. IIRR, in the LEAF it limits the max. output for those to 1.5kW, versus 6 kW max. in normal mode.


I've been driving all Winter in Frigid weather, in Eco mode, as usual. It takes longer to warm the car up, but even below Zero it still warms the cabin. They should have warmed all the cars up in Normal, the switched to Eco for the road test portion. Banning Eco mode for a range test is just stupid.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

GRA
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Re: German magazine compares real-world electric-car ranges, efficiencies in cold weather

Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:51 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
It certainly does if you want/need to use the HVAC. IIRR, in the LEAF it limits the max. output for those to 1.5kW, versus 6 kW max. in normal mode.


I've been driving all Winter in Frigid weather, in Eco mode, as usual. It takes longer to warm the car up, but even below Zero it still warms the cabin. They should have warmed all the cars up in Normal, the switched to Eco for the road test portion. Banning Eco mode for a range test is just stupid.

Not using Eco will be typical for normal drivers who don't spend all their time trying to maximize their range, and who need/want to drive at the speed limit of freeways/autobahns. Can you go 80 mph in Eco? I forget whether or not Eco limits the top speed directly (or indirectly, via lack of power) on the 1st gen LEAF, but it apparently does limit it on the 2nd gen. ISTR most of the cars in the test also do so.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

LeftieBiker
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Re: German magazine compares real-world electric-car ranges, efficiencies in cold weather

Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:34 pm

I think I've done 80 in Eco, but I'm not positive, as I rarely go faster than 65.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

rcm4453
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Re: German magazine compares real-world electric-car ranges, efficiencies in cold weather

Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:23 pm

RonDawg wrote:They left out the Leaf likely because they could only get 2017's at the time of the test and the 2018 is going to be markedly different. They also left out the Tesla Model 3 likely because they're a bit of a unicorn right now. The car they should have tested but for some reason didn't was the BMW i3, which to my knowledge is unchanged for 2018.

The test isn't to see who can go the absolute furthest. It's to replicate how the cars are likely going to be used by the average person, especially one who has never used an EV before. For many if not most EV's the Eco mode limits HVAC usage.

It's interesting to note that the Hyundai Ioniq went just 10 miles short of the e-Golf despite having a 22% smaller battery and is about the same size externally, maybe a bit larger. And how the Renault Zoe had 89% of the Ampera-E (Chevy Bolt)'s range with a battery only about 2/3 as large.



I'm amazed how efficient the Hyundai Ioniq EV is at higher speeds and in cold conditions! I wish they would hurry up and release a version with a bigger battery and actually sell it nationwide in the U.S. If they do it will be my next car when I turn in my Leaf in 2019.

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