A better hybrid than the Chevy Volt?

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Desertstraw

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http://green.autoblog.com/2011/02/02/byd-f3dm-plug-in-hybrid-averaging-50-miles-of-real-world-electri/

The media insist on calling the Volt an electric car which it is not. Do the Chinese have a better one? While some in the Leaf community dismiss the BYD E6 as an illusion, if they have now successfully delivered a plug-in hybrid to this country, can the E6 be far behind? And wouldn't a 200 mile range with fast charging capability make our Leafs obsolete? Such a car would even make ICE cars obsolescent. Warren Buffet may be smarter than people think.
 
Of course the Volt is an electric car, if you dont put any fuel in the tank you can still drive it around.. it will probably complain about it but so what?. Stop being dogmatic about it and dont take yourself so seriously :D

If you towed a genset behind the LEAF to recharge or drive the wheels, would it stop being an electric car?, how about if you towed a solar array?

Will the BYD E6 make the LEAF obsolete?, how about the Coda with its 35kwh pack?.. these are marketing questions and lots of guessing is involved. My guess the sweet spot for most americans will be low cost BEVs with 35kwh packs, midsized/midprized with 35-50kwh packs, luxury models, trucks and SUV would benefit from packs of 50-100kwh capacity... I dont think A size city cars such as the iMiev or Smart will ever be popular. Eventually all BEVs will be fast charge capable, probably cheaper to make them that way since the manufacture would not have to package a DC charger IN the car... they could make lots of money selling you several variations of external chargers.

The barriers to bring a new car company to the US are very high, best bet for BYD is to buy up Chrysler when it goes belly up again.
 
The volt will not function as designed without fuel in the tank - even on short drives. It uses the gasoline engine for supplemental acceleration and higher speeds in normal everyday use. So from that perspective, the argument that it it's a hybrid is a valid one.

Having said that, does anyone know what it will do if it doesn't have any gas in the tank and, for example, you try to drive 80 on an interstate? will it just not accelerate past it's pure electric limit, or will it go ahead and do it? I suppose if you can "force" it to be pure electric that's good..... Although in that case you just wasted a whole lot of extra money on that gas engine you're carting around :p :)
 
defiancecp said:
The volt will not function as designed without fuel in the tank - even on short drives. It uses the gasoline engine for supplemental acceleration and higher speeds in normal everyday use.
Click to expand...
I don't believe that is correct, my understanding is that when the battery is not low, it provides all the traction power. I believe there are a few cases when the gas engine does come on, e.g. if the battery compartment is too cold and needs heating.

Cheers, Wayne
 
defiancecp said:
The volt will not function as designed without fuel in the tank - even on short drives. It uses the gasoline engine for supplemental acceleration and higher speeds in normal everyday use. So from that perspective, the argument that it it's a hybrid is a valid one.
Click to expand...
You might want to fact-check and read up on the Volt.
It's a Hybrid, sure, but not for the reasons you claim.
 
Really? I could've sworn I read an early drive test that said it would turn on the gas engine at higher speeds (ie interstate driving); that isn't true? Will it actually stay 100% electric if it has a full charge then? And if not, when does it use the engine?
 
defiancecp said:
Really? I could've sworn I read an early drive test that said it would turn on the gas engine at higher speeds (ie interstate driving); that isn't true? Will it actually stay 100% electric if it has a full charge then? And if not, when does it use the engine?
Click to expand...
The gas engine can provide some direct propulsion assistance if the ECU determines it will be more efficient.

The gas engine will only turn on when the batteries are low (or if you turn on mountain mode to increase the "low" threshold).
 
of course there is a better hybrid and that would be the Prius.
on my Volt test drive the guy told us that the gas engine does come on when additional power is needed no matter what the charge level of the battery.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
on my Volt test drive the guy told us that the gas engine does come on when additional power is needed no matter what the charge level of the battery.
Click to expand...
That guy would be incorrect.
 
Herm said:
The barriers to bring a new car company to the US are very high, best bet for BYD is to buy up Chrysler when it goes belly up again.
Click to expand...

When the US goes bankrupt it will acquire the asset directly from the govt.
 
drees"That guy would be incorrect.[/quote said:
Actually, that guy IS correct. Sorry, but you are mistaken. The gen gasoline engine WILL also be used if the car hits 70mph no matter the battery charge.
Click to expand...
 
Herm said:
Of course the Volt is an electric car, if you dont put any fuel in the tank you can still drive it around.. it will probably complain about it but so what?. Stop being dogmatic about it and dont take yourself so seriously :D

If you towed a genset behind the LEAF to recharge or drive the wheels, would it stop being an electric car?, how about if you towed a solar array?

Will the BYD E6 make the LEAF obsolete?, how about the Coda with its 35kwh pack?.. these are marketing questions and lots of guessing is involved. My guess the sweet spot for most americans will be low cost BEVs with 35kwh packs, midsized/midprized with 35-50kwh packs, luxury models, trucks and SUV would benefit from packs of 50-100kwh capacity... I dont think A size city cars such as the iMiev or Smart will ever be popular. Eventually all BEVs will be fast charge capable, probably cheaper to make them that way since the manufacture would not have to package a DC charger IN the car... they could make lots of money selling you several variations of external chargers.

The barriers to bring a new car company to the US are very high, best bet for BYD is to buy up Chrysler when it goes belly up again.
Click to expand...


No it is not, it's a hybrid. A LEAF with a genset trailer is and EV towing a trailer, period. There are different hybrid configurations but it is a hybrid. If Nissan does what GM did in the LEAF it's a hybrid.




"However of particular interest, when going above 70 mph in charge sustaining mode, and the generator gets coupled to the drivetrain, the gas engine participates in the motive force. GM says the engine never drives the wheels all by itself, but will participate in this particular situation in the name of efficiency, which is improved by 10 to 15 percent."


HYBRID



If the above never happened you could call it a range extended EV. It is in NO way a pure EV and to call it such is only misleading.

Wikipedia:

Vehicles

Hybrid vehicle, a vehicle using more than one power source
Hybrid electric vehicle, a vehicle using both internal combustion and electric power sources
Hybrid bicycle, a bicycle with features of road and mountain bikes


I wish GM would stop trying to suggest the VOLT is an pure EV, at least they have backed off a bit in some ways after the truth came out.
 
Actually, that guy IS correct. Sorry, but you are mistaken. The gen gasoline engine WILL also be used if the car hits 70mph no matter the battery charge.
Click to expand...

Please provide a link where this is stated. I'm with drees here as I don't remember any such statement coming from GM. What I have read is that once the engine is started and you are driving over 70 mph, the gas engine will provide some torque directly to the wheels. See the following article. http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/Chevrolet_Volt/Performance/

It’s a 1.4-liter four cylinder that acts mainly as a generator for the electric motor, but also adds power to the wheels when the Volt goes over 70 miles per hour. Chevrolet originally said the gasoline engine wouldn’t power the wheels at all, but having it help in some conditions is actually more efficient than letting the electric motor work alone.
Click to expand...

Like the staff at Leaf test drive events, you can't believe everything those people say. The Volt will run in pure EV mode until the battery is low. The only exception is if you select the hill climbing mode, then the engine will start-up earlier in order to keep the battery in a higher state of charge.

The Prius IS a better hybrid IF you often travel long distances and/or have no access to electricity at your residence to charge. The Prius has better fuel economy than the Volt once the battery is depleted.

As for the other vehicles from BYD, the specs are nice on paper but let's wait until they actually start delivering them to paying customers. The media has been talking about BYD for a long time and they have been at the Detroit Auto show for a few years running yet they still haven't got a dealership network in place. You can't compare something you can buy today to something you might be able to buy tomorrow. It's like comparing a Focus EV to the Leaf. You can compare the specs but until you can drive them side-by-side you can make a fare comparison.
 
muus said:
Please provide a link where this is stated. I'm with drees here as I don't remember any such statement coming from GM. What I have read is that once the engine is started and you are driving over 70 mph, the gas engine will provide some torque directly to the wheels. See the following article. http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/Chevrolet_Volt/Performance/
Click to expand...
Even that article isn't quite correct as you can easily tell by the Volt's performance numbers in EV and range-extender mode that performance improves even on a 0-60 sprint. Not quite sure why the 0-30 performance is slower in range-extender mode, though.

http://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/volt/2011/road-test-specs.html
 
My opinion is that the Volt is both an EV AND a hybrid, but never a PURE EV. If your trips are always short enough that the gas engine never starts up then the Volt is driven like a pure EV. Having the gas engine on board allows the owner to go beyond the approx. 35 mile EV range. Having to lug around a gas engine though means the Volt's computer will start it up from time time similar to how automatic backup generators start-up once a month (or once a week). The Volt engine will also run when it is cold to supply cabin heating.
 
drees said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
on my Volt test drive the guy told us that the gas engine does come on when additional power is needed no matter what the charge level of the battery.
Click to expand...
That guy would be incorrect.
Click to expand...

which means he was just as informative as the guy at the Leaf test drive
 
The Edmuns article above proves my point. They do the 1/4 mile in electric-only operation in 16.8 seconds @ 81.5 mph. Yes the 1/4 mile run is .2 seconds faster with the gas engine assisting, but it doesn't state that the engine automatically starts at 70 mph.

So until proven otherwise, the Volt can run in EV only mode until the battery level is too low.
 
LEAFfan said:
Actually, that guy IS correct. Sorry, but you are mistaken. The gen gasoline engine WILL also be used if the car hits 70mph no matter the battery charge.
Click to expand...
Actually you're confusing the Prius with the Volt. While it's true that the engine in the Prius will always start at higher speeds, the same is not true of the Volt. Yes the second smaller motor will engage the ring gear at speeds above 70 MPH when the Volt is in CD Mode (running on the battery). However, the second motor will be 100% powered by the battery. What you have in this situation is two motors, both powered by the battery, running at efficient speeds rather than one motor running an an inefficient higher speed. But the engine is off. Not only will the engine never start so long as the battery hasn't fallen below its SOC, you could take the engine out of the Volt and it would still go 104 MPH without a problem.

What you may be thinking of is that in CS Mode, after the battery is depleted and the range extender has started, the smaller motor will provide reactionary mechanical torque to the ring gear. This is a different operation. After the battery is depleted the engine runs the smaller motor generator which supplies electricity to the larger traction motor. At speeds above 70 MPH this still occurs. However, in addition the smaller motor engages the ring gear and transfers some reactionary mechanical torque.

You can get a detailed explanation that clears up any misperceptions about how this works in this presentation: http://vxlive.feedroom.com/feedroom/http/4000/5172/6999/7438/Lobby/default.htm (the explanation most relevant starts at 13:00 but the whole presentation is informative).
 
EVDRIVER said:
I wish GM would stop trying to suggest the VOLT is an pure EV, at least they have backed off a bit in some ways after the truth came out.
Click to expand...
Actually the reason why GM makes a big deal about the Volt not being a hybrid, when it obviously is, is that most people don't understand the difference between serial and parallel hybrids. if they did then there wouldn't be a problem and GM could just sell the Volt as a serial hybrid. In this regard, you can think of a Volt as being a Leaf with a genset attached on a trailer, except the implementation is vastly more sophisticated and without the pollution and emissions issues created by such a setup.

So why doesn't GM just say the Volt is a "Serial Hybrid"? They don't do that because most consumers are dummies. Case in point: How many dummies have written "the Volt is a hybrid just like the Prius"? This may be stupid but if the vast majority of people think that "Hybrid=Prius" then how do you sell a serial hybrid which has nothing to do with the parallel hybrid Prius? You have the marketing department come up with some lame name like "Electric Range Extended Vehicle". But you do this because people are dumb not because you're dumb.

No idea about what you mean by "after the truth came out".
 

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