User avatar
TonyWilliams
Posts: 10032
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:48 am
Location: San Diego
Contact: Website

Re: Official Toyota RAV4 EV thread

Sat Mar 15, 2014 2:50 pm

So, how do we know these are "B" cells, and more importantly, how do we even know they are the same 3100ma cells that Model S uses?

palmermd
Posts: 2442
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:19 pm
Delivery Date: 31 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 1100011011
Location: Hermosa Beach, CA

Re: Official Toyota RAV4 EV thread

Sat Mar 15, 2014 3:01 pm

TonyWilliams wrote:So, how do we know these are "B" cells, and more importantly, how do we even know they are the same 3100ma cells that Model S uses?


I'm not sure there is such a thing as a "B" cell. It is a "B" pack on the Model S. For all we know A,B,C and D packs all use the same cells. Some theorize that the B and newer packs have cell improvements, but other doubt that and just think is is some other limitation related to pack construction. Personally I think they may both be correct. I doubt there have been 4+ chemistry changes in the pack, so at least some of the changes are probably due to just improvements in pack construction. Some are potentially performance improvements, but I'd bet some are just improvements that shorten the time to construct a pack. Tesla is working hard to improve the production line, and the speed of these pack builds is one of the main components.

As far as knowing what is inside a Tesla Model S pack versus what is inside a Rav4EV pack, you'd have to open the packs remove some cells and test them. Or you could ask Tesla if they were willing to give an answer. I doubt they would tell you (not specifically you, but anyone), and not many folks willing to have the pack opened and then have individual cells removed for testing and comparison.
Michael

Leaf since 31 March 2011
Driving electric since 1996


First Bar Loss
Second Bar Loss
Third Bar Loss

User avatar
TonyWilliams
Posts: 10032
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:48 am
Location: San Diego
Contact: Website

Re: Official Toyota RAV4 EV thread

Sat Mar 15, 2014 3:04 pm

Here's my pack, Tesla part number 1004200-02-E

The newest Tesla Model S serial number cars have 1014114-00-D




Image



Image

palmermd
Posts: 2442
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:19 pm
Delivery Date: 31 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 1100011011
Location: Hermosa Beach, CA

Re: Official Toyota RAV4 EV thread

Sat Mar 15, 2014 3:46 pm

With it being a totally different part number, I don't think you have any way to compare. Dates are about the only thing you have to go on. I suspect that any pack built on a specific date would have the same cells, but even that could be misleading because they may have put aside some cells for the RAV and then did not build them into a pack until a later date.

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showwiki ... tery+table

The above is a list of reported pack data from TMC. It really does not help the Rav guys know anything really. The only way to know anything would be testing as far as I know, unless you can pry the data out of someone at Tesla.
Michael

Leaf since 31 March 2011
Driving electric since 1996


First Bar Loss
Second Bar Loss
Third Bar Loss

User avatar
TonyWilliams
Posts: 10032
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:48 am
Location: San Diego
Contact: Website

Re: Official Toyota RAV4 EV thread

Sat Mar 15, 2014 4:23 pm

Ok, so all this confirms what I expected. We don't know anything more about the Rav4 pack.

At 860 pounds for 45-48kWh, it is well more than double the weight of the 85kWh battery in a Model S, therefore as I've always suspected, it likely doesn't have the 3100ma cells.

I've guessed either the Roadster 2200ma (since the prototypes used that cell) or a cheaper 2900ma.

fooljoe
Posts: 640
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:33 am
Delivery Date: 10 Jun 2011
Location: Seal Beach, CA
Contact: Website

Re: Official Toyota RAV4 EV thread

Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:24 pm

Tony -

It's probably a pointless exercise, but if you've still got both a 2012 and a 2014 Rav, did you check if that part number varies at all between them? It wouldn't really prove anything if they're different, but if they're the same that might indicate there hasn't been a cell change.
RavCharge.com | 2012 Rav4-EV | 2011 Leaf SL w/QC batt replaced 11/20/15 | Clipper Creek CS-60 | EVSEupgraded 2013 Leaf EVSE | 3.84kw PV

User avatar
TonyWilliams
Posts: 10032
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:48 am
Location: San Diego
Contact: Website

Re: Official Toyota RAV4 EV thread

Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:09 pm

fooljoe wrote:Tony -

It's probably a pointless exercise, but if you've still got both a 2012 and a 2014 Rav, did you check if that part number varies at all between them? It wouldn't really prove anything if they're different, but if they're the same that might indicate there hasn't been a cell change.



I've yet to see the 2014 Rav4 EV. I bought it, sight unseen, from Dianne and I haven't been in the USA since.

pchilds
Posts: 418
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:14 am
Delivery Date: 31 Jul 2011
Leaf Number: 006141
Location: SoCal

Re: Official Toyota RAV4 EV thread

Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:43 pm

TonyWilliams wrote:
fooljoe wrote:Tony -

It's probably a pointless exercise, but if you've still got both a 2012 and a 2014 Rav, did you check if that part number varies at all between them? It wouldn't really prove anything if they're different, but if they're the same that might indicate there hasn't been a cell change.



I've yet to see the 2014 Rav4 EV. I bought it, sight unseen, from Dianne and I haven't been in the USA since.


I would be glad to break it in for you, if you need my help, let me know. 8-)
2011 LEAF, gone,
2012 RAV4 EV,
2015 Model S 85D,
Solar PV 5.25 kW system.

lion
Posts: 557
Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:23 pm
Delivery Date: 22 May 2013

Re: Official Toyota RAV4 EV thread

Tue Mar 18, 2014 6:50 pm

Since Toyota is printing Tony's forum threads, I want to use this opportunity to BEG Toyota to PLEASE release the RAV4 EV to other states :( I really need a matching RAV4 EV to go with my RAV4 V6!

We now return to your regularly scheduled programming ;)

User avatar
TomT
Posts: 10570
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:09 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 000360
Location: Foothills of Granada Hills, CA
Contact: Website

Re: Official Toyota RAV4 EV thread

Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:15 pm

It won't happen. The RAV4EV is strictly a compliance vehicle and they are not going to sell it anywhere where they can not get at least as many credits as in California...

lion wrote:Since Toyota is printing Tony's forum threads, I want to use this opportunity to BEG Toyota to PLEASE release the RAV4 EV to other states :( I really need a matching RAV4 EV to go with my RAV4 V6! We now return to your regularly scheduled programming ;)
59,991 miles/12 bars/289 Gids/68.54 AHr/101% SOH/101.64% Hx 7May15 w/ new Lizard (barely made the warranty).
71,770 miles/12 bars/256 Gids/59.04 AHr/88% SOH/87.92% Hx 3Mar16 at lease return.

Now driving a 2016 Volt Premier. Model 3 configured.

Return to “Other Electric Cars & Plug-In Hybrids”