edatoakrun
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Re: EV, PHEV specs/dimensions compared

Fri Aug 02, 2013 11:05 am

JRP3 wrote:I believe the 60 is about 180lbs less than the 85. I think a 200lb weight difference is all that is allowed to avoid separate crash testing, which would explain why the 60 doesn't weigh less than it does.


You are saying that the 85 weighs ~4,650 lbs, and the 60 weighs ~180 lbs less?

So, you think Tesla designed the 60 kWh model to be heavier just to avoid crash safety testing?

What did Tesla do to the 60 to add the extra weight, put some sandbags in the frunk...?
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GRA
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Re: EV, PHEV specs/dimensions compared

Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:59 pm

From a post on TMC:

"Received a written reply from Tesla confirming curb weight and battery cell type for the 60 kWh cars. Recap of 85 kWh vs 60 kWh information:

-Curb weight: 4647 lbs 85 kWh, 4464 lbs 60 kWh
-EPA miles per charge: 265 miles 85 kWh, 208 miles 60 kWh
-EPA MPG electric equivalent: 89 MPGe 85 kWh, 95, MPGe 60 kWh
-Both cars use Panasonic 3.1 ah 18650 Li-Ion cells, the 60 kWh cars use fewer."

So, 183 lb. difference between the two.
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JRP3
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Re: EV, PHEV specs/dimensions compared

Fri Aug 02, 2013 3:25 pm

edatoakrun wrote:
JRP3 wrote:I believe the 60 is about 180lbs less than the 85. I think a 200lb weight difference is all that is allowed to avoid separate crash testing, which would explain why the 60 doesn't weigh less than it does.


You are saying that the 85 weighs ~4,650 lbs, and the 60 weighs ~180 lbs less?

So, you think Tesla designed the 60 kWh model to be heavier just to avoid crash safety testing?

What did Tesla do to the 60 to add the extra weight, put some sandbags in the frunk...?

Yes, yes, and no. The 25kWh battery difference has to weigh more than 180lbs, because otherwise that works out to a pack level energy density of 300wh/kg, which is impossible since the 18650 cells Tesla uses are around 250wh/kg at the cell level, and the pack is around 150wh/kg.

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evnow
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Re: EV, PHEV specs/dimensions compared

Fri Aug 02, 2013 3:45 pm

JRP3 wrote:Yes, yes, and no. The 25kWh battery difference has to weigh more than 180lbs, because otherwise that works out to a pack level energy density of 300wh/kg, which is impossible since the 18650 cells Tesla uses are around 250wh/kg at the cell level, and the pack is around 150wh/kg.

Interesting - I had not followed this.
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evnow
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Re: EV, PHEV specs/dimensions compared

Fri Aug 02, 2013 3:48 pm

TomMoloughney wrote:I think you need to add an i3 REx in the PHEV column also. The weight, price & EPA EV range will be different. You have the engine power listed in the column now, but if it has the REx engine, then the weight you have is wrong. Maybe nitpicking, but the REx really almost makes it a different car don't you think?

Yes - potentially, one way to handle this. I was going to change BEV heading to BEV(x). In terms of weight etc - those are going to be different even for different trims. I was going to handle the differences by having multiple values in the columns (like I've done for S battery size, foe eg). I'll also indicate in some way what are optional (like the REx).
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evnow
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Re: EV, PHEV specs/dimensions compared

Sat Aug 24, 2013 3:32 pm

Updated with new i3, Volt information - and some corrections.
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JRP3
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Re: EV, PHEV specs/dimensions compared

Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:23 pm

Wondering why you have the Model X priced lower than the Model S. I'm expecting the price to be the same or more than the Model S.

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evnow
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Re: EV, PHEV specs/dimensions compared

Sun Aug 25, 2013 8:37 am

JRP3 wrote:Wondering why you have the Model X priced lower than the Model S. I'm expecting the price to be the same or more than the Model S.

That needs to be updated. Given recent price increases, I think Tesla would be willing to price X about $5k more than S.
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dm33
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Re: EV, PHEV specs/dimensions compared

Mon Sep 02, 2013 5:10 pm

What about the Mercedes B class EV. Coming out 2014, similar timeframe to the i3. I don't know if all the specs are out yet.

Seems that the Leaf charger should have some mention of 6.6kw available, maybe "3.3kw (6.6kw option)".

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evnow
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Re: EV, PHEV specs/dimensions compared

Mon Sep 02, 2013 6:01 pm

dm33 wrote:What about the Mercedes B class EV. Coming out 2014, similar timeframe to the i3. I don't know if all the specs are out yet.

Not sure whether it is a CA only compliance car or not. If it is generally available, I'll include it (once specs are known).

Seems that the Leaf charger should have some mention of 6.6kw available, maybe "3.3kw (6.6kw option)".

Will do.
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