fooljoe
Posts: 640
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:33 am
Delivery Date: 10 Jun 2011
Location: Seal Beach, CA
Contact: Website

Re: The “range–extended” EV (BEVx) considered

Mon Aug 31, 2015 10:52 am

Sounds like Wright's turbines are designed as primary power sources rather than "range extenders". When he makes the spurious claim that these are cleaner than pure electric vehicles I take that to mean his truck batteries are too small to plug in.

So basically what he's making are natural gas hybrid trucks, and whether they're any more efficient than a "conventional" hybrid is also quite dubious. While turbines are great in term of power to weight ratio, they're not known for being particularly efficient.
RavCharge.com | 2012 Rav4-EV | 2011 Leaf SL w/QC batt replaced 11/20/15 | Clipper Creek CS-60 | EVSEupgraded 2013 Leaf EVSE | 3.84kw PV

edatoakrun
Posts: 4327
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:33 am
Delivery Date: 15 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2184
Location: Shasta County, North California

Re: The “range–extended” EV (BEVx) considered

Mon Aug 31, 2015 11:16 am

fooljoe wrote:Sounds like Wright's turbines are designed as primary power sources rather than "range extenders". When he makes the spurious claim that these are cleaner than pure electric vehicles I take that to mean his truck batteries are too small to plug in...

Wrong, on both counts:
Range-Extending Generator

•Decoupled loads: generator works to charge batteries, while batteries provide power to turn the wheels.
•Open generator architecture: the Wrightspeed Route ™ can use any number of on-board power generation options, including micro-turbines and piston engines.
•No range anxiety! The Route ™, given refueling, has an unlimited range

High-Power Battery System

•Exceptional regen capability: 400 hp
•The high-power battery system provides peak power, allowing the generator to operate at its most efficient point.
•PLUG IT IN, for up to 40 miles on grid energy.


https://www.wrightspeed.com/products/the-route/
no condition is permanent

fooljoe
Posts: 640
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:33 am
Delivery Date: 10 Jun 2011
Location: Seal Beach, CA
Contact: Website

Re: The “range–extended” EV (BEVx) considered

Mon Aug 31, 2015 12:13 pm

edatoakrun wrote:PLUG IT IN, for up to 40 miles on grid energy
That's good that it can plug in, but it begs the question: If you actually believe the claim that it's cleaner to run it off the turbine then why would you plug it in? Of course in practice I'm sure it'll come down not to what's cleaner, but what's cheaper.

On the second point, the statement that the turbine runs at "its most efficient point" doesn't say anything about how its efficiency compares with an alternative powertrain. One need only look to the example of Phil's turbine trailer or perhaps even a Volt to get a sense of how efficient such a system will be - while it delivers respectable efficiency, it's still not as good as a Prius-like system.

Anyway, the idea of these trucks is great, but the journalism in the article you linked to leaves a lot to be desired (as usual), and I find the stated goal of replacing trucks in the 130 miles a day range to be a bit odd. Such a series hybrid setup would be great for a mixed-use trucking scenario with some long haul and some time doing local deliveries or sitting around at ports. But for a relatively short, regular route it seems a pure battery EV would do the job better.
RavCharge.com | 2012 Rav4-EV | 2011 Leaf SL w/QC batt replaced 11/20/15 | Clipper Creek CS-60 | EVSEupgraded 2013 Leaf EVSE | 3.84kw PV

edatoakrun
Posts: 4327
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:33 am
Delivery Date: 15 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2184
Location: Shasta County, North California

Re: The “range–extended” EV (BEVx) considered

Thu Oct 01, 2015 11:36 am

The story below is pure speculation, IMO.

But I can dream, that some manufacturer will eventually appreciate that there is a market for a light ~2 seat BEVx, can't I?

And Mazda does have a lot of sunken costs in rotary engine development that in theory could be recovered with a range-extending generator BEV application...

Mazda will unveil a new rotary-powered sports car concept at the 2015 Tokyo Motor Show later this month.

The concept should prove popular with fans of the brand, who have bemoaned the lack of a rotary-engined sports car since the RX-8 departed in 2012.

But this concept could also have implications for those who prioritize fuel efficiency over performance.

... just a few years ago, there was chatter about Mazda using these engines as range extenders in future plug-in cars.

In 2013, we saw a range-extended electric Mazda 2 prototype that used a small rotary engine to charge a battery pack.

The car used a front-mounted, 100-horsepower electric motor for propulsion.
But it also had a tiny 330-cc rotary engine mounted under its rear cargo deck--capable of increasing range to 300 miles on the Japanese testing cycle.

The setup was similar in concept to what is currently used in the BMW i3 REx. The engine's tiny gas tank meant it was only a supplementary power source...

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/110 ... e-extender

Here's a link to the story on the Mazda 2 BEVx prototype:

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/108 ... -prototype
no condition is permanent

edatoakrun
Posts: 4327
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:33 am
Delivery Date: 15 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2184
Location: Shasta County, North California

Re: The “range–extended” EV (BEVx) considered

Mon Oct 05, 2015 7:48 am

By 10/30, we should know what Nissan means when it says efficient .
Overview: Nissan Exhibit at 2015 Tokyo Motor Show

...The Nissan Gripz Concept, conceived by designers in Europe and Japan, aims to blend the ability and practicality of a compact crossover with the excitement and performance of a sports car.

Equipped with an EV-technology-based series hybrid system—Pure Drive e-Power—, the Nissan Gripz Concept delivers a smooth, refined and exhilarating driving experience with outstanding fuel efficiency. Within the system, an efficient gasoline engine powers the same electric motor used in the Nissan Leaf...

http://www.nissan-global.com/EN/NEWS/20 ... e.html?rss

Hopefully, it means Nissan understands the concept of a BEVx.

A BEV equipped with enough battery capacity to meet all regular driving needs, and also a small displacement low kW ICE, used to extend the range between stops at DC stations on occasional longer trips.
no condition is permanent

edatoakrun
Posts: 4327
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:33 am
Delivery Date: 15 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2184
Location: Shasta County, North California

Re: The “range–extended” EV (BEVx) considered

Thu Dec 03, 2015 12:57 pm

No ICE for the LEAF, But perhaps a BEVx coming from Nissan, sooner rather than later.

Nissan EV range extender in 2016

...To be revealed in 2016, the new vehicle will be self-proclaimed EV market leader Nissan’s first attempt at offering an electric car with a small combustion engine. Unlike regular and plug-in hybrids, the (usually tiny) engines have no connection to the driving wheels.

...Yoshi Shimoida, Nissan’s Deputy General Manager, EV and HEV engineering division, revealed to motoring.com.au that there will be “no engine” for the LEAF in future, ruling out the world’s best-selling EV as a donor car.

“But in the future Nissan will add [a new vehicle] to the line-up of EV systems an engine that is only for generating energy,” said the EV technology specialist....

The Japanese EV guru wouldn’t be drawn on the Nissan EV’s range...

Shimoida wouldn’t say what the new vehicle will be called although he did reveal it’s going to be announced sooner rather than later.

“Next year we announce what it’s called,” he stated.

If the new vehicle is not going to be a LEAF, it’s possible an all-new vehicle premiering the range-extending EV technology for Nissan could be introduced...

http://www.motoring.com.au/nissan-ev-ra ... 16-100413/
no condition is permanent

scottf200
Posts: 1600
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 9:21 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Feb 2011
Location: In my Volt VIN 01234 <actual>
Contact: Website

Re: The “range–extended” EV (BEVx) considered

Fri Dec 04, 2015 8:12 am

Because of the impact of the i3 and Volt on their potential sales? They can learn from the i3 and put in a more realistic gas tank.
100K EV miles and 80% EV usage
Volt = 53+ mile BEV up to 100 MPH, then 40 MPG hybrid with a 9 gal gas tank
RIP Tesla Model X P90DL - Sig:603 | 2011 Volt to kid | 2016 for wife | 2012 other kid

LKK
Posts: 263
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 10:27 am

Re: The “range–extended” EV (BEVx) considered

Fri Dec 04, 2015 10:50 am

Will this range extender be like the I3 in that it is only a generator, or will it be like the new Volt which in charge sustaining mode has a power train architecture similar to a conventional hybrid?

The advantage of the I3 approach it is very simple, the disadvantage is it is not very efficient. How the range extender works doesn't matter much if the battery has sufficient range, if so the range extender hardly comes on which greatly dilutes the impact of its relative efficiency. How the range extender works does matter for drivability. The I3 is, in my opinion, a good example of how not to execute a range extender. They seem to treat the range extender as an emergency backup that can be used but with limitations. Hopefully the Nissan approach will not impose this sort of limitations on the user.

You could compare the range extender to any portion of your battery that gives you range greater than your average drive. In the Volt's case the 53 mile range of the battery is good for about 90% of most peoples driving needs. For that last 10%, you need the range extender. In the case of the Bolt everything about the battery that is needed to go beyond that can be compared to the Volt range extension hardware. I don't know the numbers but it would be interesting to compare weight, volume and cost of a range extender against simply putting in a larger battery.

BernieTx
Posts: 57
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2015 7:39 am
Delivery Date: 21 Feb 2015
Location: Austin, Tx

Re: The “range–extended” EV (BEVx) considered

Fri Dec 04, 2015 11:47 am

LKK wrote:...The I3 is, in my opinion, a good example of how not to execute a range extender. They seem to treat the range extender as an emergency backup that can be used but with limitations. Hopefully the Nissan approach will not impose this sort of limitations on the user.

You could compare the range extender to any portion of your battery that gives you range greater than your average drive. In the Volt's case the 53 mile range of the battery is good for about 90% of most peoples driving needs. For that last 10%, you need the range extender. In the case of the Bolt everything about the battery that is needed to go beyond that can be compared to the Volt range extension hardware. I don't know the numbers but it would be interesting to compare weight, volume and cost of a range extender against simply putting in a larger battery.


Good points. The Volt seems to wind up with less cargo/passenger space, in exchange for getting both a fully functional EV, and a fully functional "hybrid" mode. Cost? Weight? who knows. Honestly, all we can do is compare the cars that are out there today.

A valid comparison involves more than just the extra batteries vs the engine/transmission. For example, how much extra volume, weight and cost is a heatpump+DCFC+7.7KW L2? The Volt foregoes those items because it has an ICE range extender, and an ICE cabin heater. The i3 includes them since it is closer to a pure EV.
2014 Chevy Volt ...

LeftieBiker
Posts: 6425
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: The “range–extended” EV (BEVx) considered

Fri Dec 04, 2015 12:10 pm

Nissan EV range extender in 2016


That should read "Nissan EV range extender to be named in 2016."
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

Return to “Other Electric Cars & Plug-In Hybrids”