User avatar
evnow
Moderator
Posts: 11280
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:41 am
Delivery Date: 25 Feb 2011
Leaf Number: 303
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: California ZEV/PZEV (CARB) requirements for reference

Sat Jun 29, 2013 10:51 am

KJD wrote:The chart says 3% starting in 2015 right?

Yes that makes it interesting. I would be surprised if all the big OEMs are not thinking of atleast one serious EV by that time. Paying a lot of money to Tesla (and Nissan, if they sell it) would not be palatable to the likes of Mercedes and VW.
1st Leaf : 2/28/2011 to 5/6/2013
2nd Leaf : 5/4/2013 to ?

User avatar
TonyWilliams
Vendor
Posts: 9819
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:48 am
Location: San Diego
Contact: Website

Re: California ZEV/PZEV (CARB) requirements for reference

Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:07 pm

evnow wrote:
KJD wrote:The chart says 3% starting in 2015 right?

Yes that makes it interesting. I would be surprised if all the big OEMs are not thinking of atleast one serious EV by that time. Paying a lot of money to Tesla (and Nissan, if they sell it) would not be palatable to the likes of Mercedes and VW.



They don't need an EV; just ZEV. Toyota will move into Phase IV with a hydrogen car (2015 - 2017 model years).

And it doesn't have to "be serious", either. Just enough to meet the threshold to be allowed to sell juicy, polluting, oil burning cars, trucks, SUV's, etc, by the millions.
Go-Cable tm, $299 for 20 amp J1772 charging
JESLAtm, the premium 40 amp J1772 portable charging solution
JLongtm the J1772 extension cord
JdeMOtm, the CHAdeMO outlet for your electric car
JDaptortm, Tesla charging for your EV

http://www.QuickChargePower.com

User avatar
evnow
Moderator
Posts: 11280
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:41 am
Delivery Date: 25 Feb 2011
Leaf Number: 303
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: California ZEV/PZEV (CARB) requirements for reference

Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:37 pm

TonyWilliams wrote:They don't need an EV; just ZEV. Toyota will move into Phase IV with a hydrogen car (2015 - 2017 model years).

And it doesn't have to "be serious", either. Just enough to meet the threshold to be allowed to sell juicy, polluting, oil burning cars, trucks, SUV's, etc, by the millions.


I think at 3%, it starts getting somewhat serious.

Nissan has sold 520k cars this year. 3% of that is 15k cars. Assuming 50% of ICE sales are covered by ZEV rules, it would be 7.5k cars in 5 months i.e. 1,500 cars per month. That is probably what Leaf is selling in ZEV states right now.

Toyota has to sell a lot more, with sales nearly double of Nissan. Same for Ford, Honda, GM, Chrysler & Hyundai+Kia who all sell more than Nissan.

http://online.wsj.com/mdc/public/page/2 ... autosalesC

I don't think Toyota can move that many H2 cars - given the price and threadbare infrastructure.
1st Leaf : 2/28/2011 to 5/6/2013
2nd Leaf : 5/4/2013 to ?

Zythryn
Posts: 874
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2010 4:49 am

Re: California ZEV/PZEV (CARB) requirements for reference

Sun Jun 30, 2013 5:31 pm

evnow wrote:
TonyWilliams wrote:They don't need an EV; just ZEV. Toyota will move into Phase IV with a hydrogen car (2015 - 2017 model years).

And it doesn't have to "be serious", either. Just enough to meet the threshold to be allowed to sell juicy, polluting, oil burning cars, trucks, SUV's, etc, by the millions.


I think at 3%, it starts getting somewhat serious.

Nissan has sold 520k cars this year. 3% of that is 15k cars. ...


I believe the ZEV credits are based on cars sold in California, aren't they?
Still, it is almost 4 times current requirements.
Previous owner of Prius, Volt & Leaf
Current owner of Model S
http://www.netzeromn.com

User avatar
evnow
Moderator
Posts: 11280
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:41 am
Delivery Date: 25 Feb 2011
Leaf Number: 303
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: California ZEV/PZEV (CARB) requirements for reference

Sun Jun 30, 2013 5:54 pm

Zythryn wrote:I believe the ZEV credits are based on cars sold in California, aren't they?

Check rest of my post. 14 states require ZEV (under section 177 or something like that). Also check the link to TMC I posted.
1st Leaf : 2/28/2011 to 5/6/2013
2nd Leaf : 5/4/2013 to ?

GRA
Posts: 6283
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: California ZEV (CARB) requirements for reference

Wed Sep 03, 2014 5:35 pm

Via GCC:

"California ARB considering modifications to ZEV regs to provide more flexibility for intermediate volume manufacturers"

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2014/09 ... rbzev.html

Report here:

"STAFF REPORT: INITIAL STATEMENT OF REASONS FOR RULEMAKING

"PROPOSED 2014 AMENDMENTS TO THE ZERO EMISSION VEHICLE REGULATION"

http://www.arb.ca.gov/regact/2014/zev2014/zev14isor.pdf
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'.

User avatar
TonyWilliams
Vendor
Posts: 9819
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:48 am
Location: San Diego
Contact: Website

Re: California ZEV/PZEV (CARB) requirements for reference

Wed Sep 03, 2014 8:45 pm

evnow wrote:
Zythryn wrote:I believe the ZEV credits are based on cars sold in California, aren't they?

Check rest of my post. 14 states require ZEV (under section 177 or something like that). Also check the link to TMC I posted.


The following states are CARB-ZEV "coalition" states - California, Connecticut, Maryland, Massachusetts, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island and Vermont.

Right now, all the credits can be earned in California, however, starting in 2018, the credits must be earned in all the states... EXCEPT for hydrogen. The manufacturers can sell hydrogen cars only in California and it counts in all CARB-ZEV states.

************

The "big six" Large Vehicle Manufacturers (LVM) auto manufacturers of the world (Toyota, Honda, Nissan, GM, Ford, Fiat/Chrysler) were required to begin the modern day CARB-ZEV rules, starting in 2012. That's is exactly what Toyota did with Rav4 EV.

Therefore over three years, there are 900,000 oil burner Toyota cars sold in California.

The current 0.79% credits rule of Zero Emission Vehicle (ZEV) sales means 7110 credits over three model years. Each Rav4 EV earns 3 credits each, so 2370 battery electric cars solve that over the three model years.

But, the 9 credit hydrogen car need only 790 individual sales over three model years, or 263 per each model year during 2015 - 2017.

If the 9 credits for hydrogen are retained, then Toyota would only have to sell 5,333 hydrogen cars per year IN CALIFORNIA ONLY (none in the several other CARB-ZEV states) without any battery electric cars sold, even at 16% of total credits in model year 2025!!!!

That's about the current 2 month sales of the LEAF in the USA, and perhaps 3-6 months of the current California only LEAF sales. Again, I'm talking about 2025 model year ZEV compliance with nothing but a hydrogen car with California tax payer funded refueling stations.

Hydrogen is WIN - WIN for Toyota and others in the hydrogen camp that really don't wish to be in the ZEV game.

Soichiro Okudaira, chief officer of Toyota’s research and development group, told Automotive News Europe said that fuel cell vehicles won't be priced to compete with battery electrics before 2030.

Model year ---- ZEV Credit % of total annual sales

2012 ------------ 0.79%
2018 ------------ 2.00%
2019 ------------ 4.00%
2020 ------------ 6.00%
2021 ------------ 8.00%
2022 ----------- 10.00%
2023 ----------- 12.00%
2024 ----------- 14.00%
2025 ----------- 16.00%
Go-Cable tm, $299 for 20 amp J1772 charging
JESLAtm, the premium 40 amp J1772 portable charging solution
JLongtm the J1772 extension cord
JdeMOtm, the CHAdeMO outlet for your electric car
JDaptortm, Tesla charging for your EV

http://www.QuickChargePower.com

Berlino
Posts: 661
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 05 Aug 2013
Leaf Number: 412600
Location: Quebec City, Canada

Re: California ZEV/PZEV (CARB) requirements for reference

Wed Sep 03, 2014 9:37 pm

TonyWilliams wrote:
The following states are CARB-ZEV "coalition" states - California, Connecticut, Maryland, Massachusetts, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island and Vermont.



What is unique to New Jersey and Maine for them to appear on this ZEV program map, http://www.c2es.org/us-states-regions/p ... ev-program
, but not make your list of coalition states?
Ordered: 7/18/13 Delivered: 8/05/13
Red 2013 SL w/premium
EVSE Upgrade, LEAF Spy Pro
Michelin X-Ice Xi3 FIVE months per year.
--------------------------------------
Silver S85.
Selected from inventory w ~500 miles: 3/28/14
Delivered: 3/31/14

User avatar
TonyWilliams
Vendor
Posts: 9819
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:48 am
Location: San Diego
Contact: Website

Re: California ZEV/PZEV (CARB) requirements for reference

Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:13 pm

Berlino wrote:
TonyWilliams wrote:
The following states are CARB-ZEV "coalition" states - California, Connecticut, Maryland, Massachusetts, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island and Vermont.



What is unique to New Jersey and Maine for them to appear on this ZEV program map, http://www.c2es.org/us-states-regions/p ... ev-program
, but not make your list of coalition states?


It's not "my" list:

CARB states - Arizona, California, Connecticut, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont, Washington, District of Columbia.

CARB-ZEV "coalition" states - California, Connecticut, Maryland, Massachusetts, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island and Vermont
Go-Cable tm, $299 for 20 amp J1772 charging
JESLAtm, the premium 40 amp J1772 portable charging solution
JLongtm the J1772 extension cord
JdeMOtm, the CHAdeMO outlet for your electric car
JDaptortm, Tesla charging for your EV

http://www.QuickChargePower.com

Berlino
Posts: 661
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 05 Aug 2013
Leaf Number: 412600
Location: Quebec City, Canada

Re: California ZEV/PZEV (CARB) requirements for reference

Thu Sep 04, 2014 5:00 pm

TonyWilliams wrote:
It's not "my" list:

CARB states - Arizona, California, Connecticut, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont, Washington, District of Columbia.

CARB-ZEV "coalition" states - California, Connecticut, Maryland, Massachusetts, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island and Vermont


Well, disregarding the origin of the list, why is Maine not listed? Is adopting California's ZEV regulation not enough?

http://www.arb.ca.gov/regact/2014/zev2014/zev14isor.pdf

Page 19: Currently, nine states have adopted the California ZEV regulation. ---Maine and New Jersey are included.
Ordered: 7/18/13 Delivered: 8/05/13
Red 2013 SL w/premium
EVSE Upgrade, LEAF Spy Pro
Michelin X-Ice Xi3 FIVE months per year.
--------------------------------------
Silver S85.
Selected from inventory w ~500 miles: 3/28/14
Delivered: 3/31/14

Return to “Other Electric Cars & Plug-In Hybrids”