edatoakrun
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Re: Tesla Model X

Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:28 am

scottf200 wrote:Aside...

Aside:
"scottf200":

Glad to hear of your progress.

Perhaps you should also reflect on your great fortune that more serious injuries to your self, your passenger(s) or others did not result from losing control of your vehicle, as close to three tons traveling at ~70 mph is certainly capable of doing much greater harm than it did.

edatoakrun wrote:...Read the comments at the story below for the less-than-complete explanation:

http://insideevs.com/tesla-model-x-crash-test/

Deer are a constant hazard, but the over-sized windshield of an X obviously presents a very large soft target for a deer or any other large object to enter the cabin and cause serious occupant injuries, either directly, or from subsequent collision after loss of control of the vehicle, after the driver is disabled.

Presumably, that X was not operating on Autopilot when it struck the deer?
no condition is permanent

edatoakrun
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Re: Tesla Model X

Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:47 am

Update:

Optimus Prime will get a new battery pack

Bjørn Nyland
Published on Oct 6, 2017

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oiNFNenjIA


edatoakrun wrote:
edatoakrun wrote:Bjorn Nyland's X stops short and takes a ride on the flatbed of shame.

Car shuts down with 14 km range left. I'm stranded 7 km away from the supercharger...

A guy could tow me. But car would not go in tow mode. Waiting for flatbed now...

Unbalanced cells. Normal speed at 85 % is 30-35 kW. This is why my car stopped at 14 km left yesterday...

https://twitter.com/BjornNyland...


Only a few days after I got Optimus Prime back, I went on a 1200 km road trip. And unfortunately, the car broke down again...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5pbODw1334


Possibly related to other "90 kWh" pack problem reports?

P90DL battery replacement thread.

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... ead.87154/
no condition is permanent

edatoakrun
Posts: 4718
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Re: Tesla Model X

Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:39 am

10 Least Reliable Cars

Consumer Reports' annual survey exposes the models with the greatest risks of problems


...Our survey takes a deep dive into the numerous things that can go wrong with a vehicle. We study 17 trouble areas, from nuisances—such as squeaky brakes and broken interior trim—to major bummers, such as out-of-warranty transmission repairs or trouble with four-wheel-drive systems. We weight the severity of each type of problem to create a Predicted Reliability Score for each vehicle.

Based on that analysis, these models are the least reliable. They are presented in rank order, counting down to the least reliable model, the Tesla Model X...

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-rel ... able-cars/


TSLA reliability overall scored #21 out of 27 ranked:

Car Brands Reliability: How They Stack Up

Ranking the brands and showing their most and least reliable cars

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-rel ... -stack-up/
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sparky
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Location: SoCal

Re: Tesla Model X

Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:25 pm

Although the CU reliability issues are with relatively minor stuff (body fitment and climate control), I think it's fair to give Tesla low marks in this area. Something to work on.
I don't have enough time with mine to offer an assessment except; zero issues so far.
Kinda funny that despite the reliability marks, the X scores #2 in owner satisfaction, slightly behind #1, Audi Q7.
I've driven the Q7 and think it alone handles better than the X. Porsche Cayenne is just behind the Tesla X IMO. Mercedes GLE is awful.
The key thing is after owning two of the competing cars, Lexus RX, Volvo XC90; neither of which had reliability issues for me, I wouldn't pick any car on CU's list over the Tesla X.
p.s. Jaguar F-pace got a pretty miserable score as well. I hope their EV model fares better.

cwerdna
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Re: Tesla Model X

Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:55 pm

sparky wrote:Although the CU reliability issues are with relatively minor stuff (body fitment and climate control), I think it's fair to give Tesla low marks in this area. Something to work on.

It's not a matter of fair or not. It's the result of surveys to CR readers and what happened in the past 12 months (less for latest model years) vs. the average.

As for "minor stuff", https://www.consumerreports.org/car-rel ... able-cars/ states for Model X: "Trouble spots: Body hardware, paint and trim, climate system"

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-rel ... histories/
The reliability charts are based on responses on more than 640,000 vehicles from our latest Annual Auto Survey conducted by the Consumer Reports National Research Center. Consumer Reports subscribers reported on any serious problems they had with their vehicles during the past 12 months that they considered serious because of cost, failure, safety, or downtime, in any of the trouble spots included in the table below.

The scores in the charts are based on the percentage of respondents who reported problems in each of the 17 trouble spots. Because high-mileage cars tend to encounter more problems than low-mileage cars, problem rates are standardized to minimize differences due to mileage. The 2017 models were generally less than six months old at the time of the survey, with an average of about 3,000 miles.

It defines those problem spots as:
BODY HARDWARE: Power or manual windows, locks and latches, tailgate, hatch or trunk, doors or sliding doors, mirrors, seat controls, safety belts, sunroof, convertible top, and glass defect.
...
PAINT/TRIM: Paint (fading, chalking, cracking, or peeling), loose interior and exterior trim or moldings, rust.
...
CLIMATE SYSTEM: Blower (fan) motor, A/C compressor, condenser, evaporator, heater system, automatic climate control, refrigerant leakage, electrical failure.

The body hardware and paint/trim issues are no surprise. The doors, front and rear are a disaster. The above page also lists average problem rates for each system. For a '17, for all 3 of those system, the average problem rate is under 1% for a usually under 6 month window. For a '16, it's 1% for each of those systems and should have a full 12 month window.

CR used to state they had a minimum 100 sample size for a given model year to not have insufficient data. If let's say they got responses for 100 '17 Model X and 2 out of a 100 each had problems in each of those 3 systems, that already makes the X worse than average on those 3 spots.

If anyone cares, here are some example of Model X problems that would fall under body hardware and/or paint/trim. Read thru these threads and posts. I sent these to someone I know and added a few more.
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... ing.77686/
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... st-1748642

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... cle.68268/
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... 39/page-16
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... st-1484546
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... ter.66455/ (FWD = Falcon Wing Doors)
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... st-1471614
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... st-1480798

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... res.85021/

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... ter.66455/
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... st-1430412
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... st-1433287

IIRC, eventually ModelXBoy had so much trouble I think he got a buyback and a replacement car: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... ion.71825/

This guy had a ton of door problems:
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... rts.71339/
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... st-1602045
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... st-1602160
- bungee cords holding door down
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... st-1629894
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... st-1733581

Also, Google for site:teslamotorsclub.com "model x" latches replace.

How many people do you know w/sub-$50K Japanese cars which have door problems like these even after the car's 5+ years old? How common are door problems on Nissan Leafs, going all the way back to model year 2011?

'13 blue Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 blue Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

palmermd
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Re: Tesla Model X

Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:42 pm

consumer reports is not a good source for car recommendations. heck, they even have a rating on the Model 3 and they've never even seen one, let alone touched one.
Michael

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Driving electric since 1996


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cwerdna
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Re: Tesla Model X

Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:46 pm

palmermd wrote:consumer reports is not a good source for car recommendations.

I've stated this publicly many times. While some might not find their car reviews worthwhile, I trust them to accurately collect and present car reliability stats from their survey responses and characterize the reliability of systems (in the buckets they defined) and vehicles in terms of how they're doing vs. the average for a given model year.

I also have found the CR's reliability ratings are generally on the mark for vehicles my family and I have owned.

I know of no better car reliability info resource for US market vehicles w/a similar or larger sample size and that is long-term enough. (e.g. JDPA's 3 year "VDS" is lame. I don't keep my cars for only 3 years and the average age of vehicles on US roads is past 11 years.)
palmermd wrote:heck, they even have a rating on the Model 3 and they've never even seen one, let alone touched one.

I have to admit that's a stretch due to lack of their min 100 survey responses on a Model 3 for a given model year (they likely have 0) but they don't have to have touched a vehicle to collect and report on reliability survey responses.

I'm 99% sure they've also stated in the past that they intentionally do NOT include reliability findings from the road test vehicles they purchase and test anyway. I'm not sure if this is still their current policy. If so, whether or not they've touched it again has no bearing.

'13 blue Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 blue Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
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LTLFTcomposite
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Re: Tesla Model X

Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:05 am

palmermd wrote:consumer reports is not a good source for car recommendations. heck, they even have a rating on the Model 3 and they've never even seen one, let alone touched one.

I believe what they said is they project the Model 3 will earn an average reliability rating. Average these days is a pretty good car.
“Electric vehicles are inherently less complicated than gasoline or hybrid alternatives. The Model 3 is the least complicated Tesla yet, and should benefit from what Tesla has learned from the Model S,” Jake Fisher, director of auto testing at Consumer Reports, said in a statement.
LTL
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GRA
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Re: Tesla Model X

Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:36 pm

cwerdna wrote:
palmermd wrote:consumer reports is not a good source for car recommendations.

I've stated this publicly many times. While some might not find their car reviews worthwhile, I trust them to accurately collect and present car reliability stats from their survey responses and characterize the reliability of systems (in the buckets they defined) and vehicles in terms of how they're doing vs. the average for a given model year.

I also have found the CR's reliability ratings are generally on the mark for vehicles my family and I have owned.

I know of no better car reliability info resource for US market vehicles w/a similar or larger sample size and that is long-term enough. (e.g. JDPA's 3 year "VDS" is lame. I don't keep my cars for only 3 years and the average age of vehicles on US roads is past 11 years.)

+1. CR is excellent for how a car works (utility) and where the problems are. For what a car is like to drive (spiritedly), I rely on the car mags. The former's best for car as appliance, the latter for car as pleasure. While CR's reliability ratings can never guarantee that someone won't get a lemon, they can vastly improve the odds in their favor. Given how long I keep cars (my current one will turn 15 in January), unless a car with the equipment I'll be getting is rated by CR as 'better' or 'much better' than average, I simply won't consider it unless it's otherwise ideal, in which case I'll think about accepting 'average' reliability.

New cars aren't rated by CR for reliability, and CR as noted won't recommend them until they have a minimum number of survey responses - all they will do (as here) is point out what the reliability has been like for a previous generation of the same car, or else a general one on anticipated reliability from that manufacturer if there is no previous car to compare to.
Last edited by GRA on Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

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LTLFTcomposite
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Re: Tesla Model X

Fri Oct 20, 2017 5:54 pm

CR responds:

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/20/consume ... we-do.html

Without mass production underway the world is left to speculate.
LTL
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