cwerdna
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Re: Tesla Model X

Sun Oct 16, 2016 11:51 pm

Yeah, it seems like the Model X was a big mistake from the above + the overly complex falcon wing doors (which also prevents roof racks) and front doors that seem fraught with issues. Examples below:
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... cle.68268/
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... ing.68443/
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... st-1733581 - this guy has had ton of trouble, if you haven't followed his posts (https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... st-1602045 was from a few months ago)
numerous cases of "snapping" when FWDs are opening/closing:
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... st-1756182
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... ing.77686/
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... st-1773067

It may be time to stop the bleeding and discontinue the Model X in its current form and begin designing a replacement w/o these complex doors.

It'll be real interesting to know how problematic these doors are 2-4 years down the line, esp. w/more temperature cycling (expansion and contraction), parking on inclines (https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... st-1515625), calibration and alignment over time from usage and normal vehicle bumps and vibrations, etc.

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LTLFTcomposite
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Re: Tesla Model X

Mon Oct 17, 2016 6:32 am

It reminds me of a neighbor of mine once who was a Ferrari enthusiast. He had not one, but two of them. Every few weeks there would be a truck coming by either picking one up or dropping one off (sometimes both), taking them to Orlando for service. He told me it was $1500 for an oil change and some belt that needed to be replaced pretty regularly at $4k a pop... and those were just a couple of the maintenance items on top of a lengthy list of issues. On any given day just having the car start was a notable occurrence. While that's an extreme scenario of ownership I'm always amazed to hear what people people are willing to put up with and the expenses they incur to drive a "great car".

It all serves as a reminder that there are a lot of people operating in completely different strata from me. Despite its shortcomings, our LEAF only went back for a couple minor things in the time we had it, and our lowly Sentra, which cost 1/10th what people are shelling out of some of these Teslas, has been back for a grand total of one minor defect in two years with a sensor adjustment that was fixed in 15 minutes.

Tesla should be grateful for having so many customers with the patience and resources to accompany them on this journey. I do wonder though as they try to take their products more mainstream if the pool of customers with deep pockets and appetite for inconvenience will become exhausted. Some of those people are going to need to get to work.
LTL
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Zythryn
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Re: Tesla Model X

Mon Oct 17, 2016 9:09 am

LTLFTcomposite wrote:It reminds me of a neighbor of mine once who was a Ferrari enthusiast. He had not one, but two of them. Every few weeks there would be a truck coming by either picking one up or dropping one off (sometimes both), taking them to Orlando for service. He told me it was $1500 for an oil change and some belt that needed to be replaced pretty regularly at $4k a pop... and those were just a couple of the maintenance items on top of a lengthy list of issues. On any given day just having the car start was a notable occurrence. While that's an extreme scenario of ownership I'm always amazed to hear what people people are willing to put up with and the expenses they incur to drive a "great car".

....


Once again, you take uncommon issues (at this point) and imply they are affecting all Model Xs.
Regarding the costs you mention above, there is no similarity as there are no costs at this point to manufacturer issues.
Our X has had service, but has never not allowed us to go to work.
Implying your neighbors level of issues and costs apply to all X owners is way off base.
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LTLFTcomposite
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Re: Tesla Model X

Mon Oct 17, 2016 7:40 pm

I never said the model X was as bad as a Ferrari, nothing could be that bad, but these stories are disturbing, and as cwerdna pointed out the confidence those FW doors will age gracefully is low.

All cars are evil, but if you ranked them on a 10 point scale of evil where 1 is a Honda accord and 10 is a Ferrari, some of these model X's accounts have them scoring a solid 8. Glad to hear for you sake and Tesla's you are scoring much better.
LTL
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TonyWilliams
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Re: Tesla Model X

Mon Oct 17, 2016 9:32 pm

dgpcolorado wrote:
TonyWilliams wrote:
dgpcolorado wrote: They needed some help with efficient Supercharging theory (driving at 85 is not the fastest way to make a trip!)


I beg to differ. Here's my comparisons with Superchargers 125 miles apart with 120kW available, burning the battery down to 10% SOC:

SPEED ------------------55mph --------- 90mph

CONSUMPTION - 3.8miles/kWh --- 2.0miles/kWh

kWh BURNED ----- 32.9kWh ----------62.5kWh

TRAVEL TIME ------- 2.3 hours ------ 1.4 hours

CHARGE TIME------ 0.4hours -------- 0.8 hours


Total Time Enroute -- 2.7 hours ---- 2.2 hours every 125 miles
Ah, but Tesla's don't charge at 120kW straight line speed (mine charges at about 75 kW after the first minute or two, but that's not a fair comparison for the bigger battery cars). The charge rate tapers sharply, especially after about 50% SOC. And that increases charging time significantly for the faster travelers because they have to charge to a much higher SOC than the turtles. The empirical results of others suggest an optimum speed of about 70-75 mph in the bigger battery cars but it does depend a lot on weather and Supercharger Station spacing.


I specifically noted "120kW AVAIALBLE"... adding 32.9 or 62.5kWh in 0.4 to 0.8 hours is not 120kW.

GRA
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Re: Tesla Model X

Fri Nov 04, 2016 4:47 pm

Via IEVS:
5-Seat Tesla Model X Now Available With Fold Flat Seats, 88 Cubic Feet Of Cargo Space
http://insideevs.com/5-seat-tesla-model ... rgo-space/

While they fold flat onto the rear seat cushions, they don't provide a flat load floor all the way from the hatch to the rear seat backs, as there's a considerable step up, perhaps as much as a foot. So, better but not yet ideal for cargo, and useless for sleeping in barring the use of a pad or box to raise the level of the cargo area to the folded seat height. OTOH, as someone pointed out in the comments, is anyone who can afford a car costing around $100k likely to sleep in the back of their car?
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abasile
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Re: Tesla Model X

Sat Nov 05, 2016 8:38 pm

GRA wrote:OTOH, as someone pointed out in the comments, is anyone who can afford a car costing around $100k likely to sleep in the back of their car?

Well, I've read plenty of reports of Model S owners sleeping in their cars. While it's certainly a small minority of owners, of course, driving an expensive car and possessing the desire to camp off the beaten path are not mutually exclusive. If I were car camping alone, or perhaps only with my wife, I'd seriously consider sleeping inside a vehicle with a large enough area to lie flat. This could be preferable to sleeping in a tent, both in terms of comfort and in terms of setup time.
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DaveinOlyWA
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Re: Tesla Model X

Sun Nov 06, 2016 6:54 am

abasile wrote:
GRA wrote:OTOH, as someone pointed out in the comments, is anyone who can afford a car costing around $100k likely to sleep in the back of their car?

Well, I've read plenty of reports of Model S owners sleeping in their cars. While it's certainly a small minority of owners, of course, driving an expensive car and possessing the desire to camp off the beaten path are not mutually exclusive. If I were car camping alone, or perhaps only with my wife, I'd seriously consider sleeping inside a vehicle with a large enough area to lie flat. This could be preferable to sleeping in a tent, both in terms of comfort and in terms of setup time.


+1. I have done it a half dozen times in the past 12 years including twice in a $29,000 Prius that I paid cash for (not bragging but bought 3 Priuses for cash... Payments is not something I am found of... actually, wait. the payments I am ok with, its the interest I avoid...)

and my options at the time was spend several hundred on camping equipment I didnt have or make do. so instead of a tent, sleeping bags and the dealing with the weather, I choose 4 comforters, about 8 pillows (great for filling in gaps and leveling the sleeping area) all costing me... nothing
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GRA
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Re: Tesla Model X

Sun Nov 06, 2016 4:24 pm

abasile wrote:
GRA wrote:OTOH, as someone pointed out in the comments, is anyone who can afford a car costing around $100k likely to sleep in the back of their car?

Well, I've read plenty of reports of Model S owners sleeping in their cars. While it's certainly a small minority of owners, of course, driving an expensive car and possessing the desire to camp off the beaten path are not mutually exclusive. If I were car camping alone, or perhaps only with my wife, I'd seriously consider sleeping inside a vehicle with a large enough area to lie flat. This could be preferable to sleeping in a tent, both in terms of comfort and in terms of setup time.

As someone who regularly sleeps in the back of my Forester at trailheads when I need a quick start, I'm with you, but I suspect we'd be a tiny minority of Model S/X owners. The Model S still has more flexible utility than the Model X for people like us (and those who want to be able to easily load a bike in the back without removing a tire, etc.). Maybe someone will eventually be able to convince Elon that the number of people who need fancy back seats is smaller than those who buy CUVs/SUVs for their flexible utility. They're still stuck with the FWD until Gen 2.
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Re: Tesla Model X

Thu Nov 10, 2016 10:29 am

Jalopnik reviewers sort of (?) likes the X.

But IMO, some questions are best not asked...

The Tesla Model X Is The Best Minivan $150,000 Can Buy

Here’s a question no one has ever asked: “How can I get an enormous van that weighs more than 6,000 pounds, rockets to highway speed in less time than it takes to sneeze, and has enormously silly doors like you’d find a DeLorean?” It doesn’t matter that no one ever asked it, though, because the Tesla Model X is amazing. Even if it is a $150,000 minivan...

http://jalopnik.com/the-tesla-model-x-i ... 1788281178
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