GRA
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Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
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Re: Official Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV SUV thread

Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:57 pm

edatoakrun wrote:
GRA wrote:
edatoakrun wrote:IIRC the MY '18 already has two 120 volt outlets, which I assume will be carried over to the '19 MY.

Not even close to the same effect as having access to all the energy stored in the both the pack and the gas tank, at a high kWh rate, through a CHAdeMO port.

...while it's a nice to have option, it's not critical.

It is critical, for the millions of PG&E customers who got the same Email I did last week, and realize how dangerous, expensive, and unreliable the grid has become, and understand the asphalt grid is a superior method of connecting to supplemental electricity supplies. <snip>
Or they could just take all the emergency precautions that government agencies and utilities have been warning them to take for decades now. You know, light (candles/lanterns and/or portable generator), cooking (portable stove and fuel), shelter, emergency food/water and purification, first aid kits, battery/solar/crank-powered radio etc., and be ready to hop in their car and evacuate if necessary. Of course, setting your house up to be capable of functioning off-grid is also a good idea, but if it's destroyed or you have to vamoose you need to be prepared for that. I've been through the semi-big one (Loma Prieta) as well as the Oakland Hills firestorm, the last when I was designing and selling off-grid systems. We were fine for power when everyone else lacked it, but we were also just outside the evacuation zone which could have been expanded at any time. So again, CHAdeMo V2H is a nice to have, but not critical. In a major emergency you don't need to be able to operate business as usual, but can power down and concentrate on the essentials, and a 2kW inverter is generally more than enough to handle that, barring an invalid who is dependent on medical equipment (ventilator etc.) - often you can get by with a lot less. As I'm a backpacker, my emergency kit is also my backpacking gear, plus the water and food I have stashed here.

Now, some individuals may need more - I don't know how deep your well is or what flow rate you require (and I'm long out of that business in any case), although if you really want to be emergency prepped you should build a tank high enough above your place that it can gravity feed and you aren't dependent on having power, which may or may not be possible for you. Not that that will guarantee you will be able to save your place. In short, you've got lots of options, and having a CHAdeMO-equipped car for V2H is only one of them. If you really need it, fine, but most people don't.

As for not being able to charge your LEAF, that's just one reason why BEVs, especially short-range ones, suck in emergencies, and why emergency vehicles should all be either plug-in hybrids or conventional. Anyone who's concerned about having to evacuate should never be dependent on a BEV and should have another vehicle, at least until you can afford a much longer-ranged BEV and always maintain a sufficient emergency reserve to evacuate.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

edatoakrun
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Re: Official Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV SUV thread

Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:52 pm

GRA wrote:
edatoakrun wrote:
GRA wrote:...while it's a nice to have option, it's not critical.

It is critical, for the millions of PG&E customers who got the same Email I did last week, and realize how dangerous, expensive, and unreliable the grid has become, and understand the asphalt grid is a superior method of connecting to supplemental electricity supplies. <snip>
Or they could just take all the emergency precautions that government agencies and utilities have been warning them to take for decades now...

Are you really so obtuse?

I am not talking about emergency back-up power.

I am pointing out that the grid is a today, largely a relic of the obsolete technology that once required powerlines to deliver electricity economically.

Next time you drive through any forested area, take a look at all the absurdly hazardous and expensive power lines that would never be installed today, now that we have inexpensive PV and batteries, and the BEVs, PHEVs and BEVxs needed to replace the energy transport function of power lines.

Eventually, even the dunderheads at PG&E and the CPUC will realize how idiotic it is to continue to subsidize their obsolete technology, with ever-more money and lives.
no condition is permanent

GRA
Posts: 9094
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Official Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV SUV thread

Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:44 pm

edatoakrun wrote:
GRA wrote:
edatoakrun wrote:It is critical, for the millions of PG&E customers who got the same Email I did last week, and realize how dangerous, expensive, and unreliable the grid has become, and understand the asphalt grid is a superior method of connecting to supplemental electricity supplies. <snip>
Or they could just take all the emergency precautions that government agencies and utilities have been warning them to take for decades now...

Are you really so obtuse?

I am not talking about emergency back-up power.

I am pointing out that the grid is a today, largely a relic of the obsolete technology that once required powerlines to deliver electricity economically.

Next time you drive through any forested area, take a look at all the absurdly hazardous and expensive power lines that would never be installed today, now that we have inexpensive PV and batteries, and the BEVs, PHEVs and BEVxs needed to replace the energy transport function of power lines.

Eventually, even the dunderheads at PG&E and the CPUC will realize how idiotic it is to continue to subsidize their obsolete technology, with ever-more money and lives.

Of course the aging grid is stressed and out of date; glad you noticed, but you're late to the party. I was supplying full off-grid systems a quarter century ago, to people who had experienced prolonged grid outages (a lot of them in the Santa Cruz mountains and up the north coast, after Loma Prieta) and were no longer willing to trust it. Actually, many of them experienced a couple of longish grid outages a year even without major natural disasters, and treated the grid as useful but not to be depended on. Microgrids, increased interties and hardening will all be necessary if a central grid is to survive. All of that is being undertaken, late and too slowly as is usually the case when large amounts of money are involved. The alternative is for nothing but micro-grids and individual loads with zero connections and lots of rarely used backup, which is still far more expensive.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 9094
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Official Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV SUV thread

Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:54 pm

Via GCR:
2018 Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV gas mileage review: practical and efficient
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1117764_2018-mitsubishi-outlander-phev-gas-mileage-review-practical-and-efficient
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 9094
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Official Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV SUV thread

Thu Aug 30, 2018 3:26 pm

Via GCC:
2019 Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV with redesigned powertrain goes on sale in Japan
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/08/20180830-outlander.html

. . . Mitsubishi made improvements to 90% of the major components of the PHEV system. The 2019 PHEV features a newly developed drive battery and engine as well as increased rear motor and generator outputs. These improvements give further improvements in the smooth and powerful acceleration inherent to its electric motor drive, and in its quietness. In addition, the model adds new SNOW and SPORT modes to its Twin Motor 4WD powertrain.

Drive battery capacity has been increased from 12 kW/h to 13.8 kW/h. Rear motor and generator outputs have been increased by around 12% and 10 % respectively. These improvements extend Outlander PHEV’s all-electric cruising range to 65.0 km (40.4 miles), up from 60.2 to 60.8 km in the JC08 cycle.

A 2.4-liter Atkinson engine replaces the old 2.0-liter unit; changes in cam profile and valve timing control allows high-efficiency power generation in the lower rev range. Also, the reduction in engine speed when in generating mode and optimization of generation output and, improvements to the air cleaner and main muffler, reduces noise from the engine itself. The result is further enhancement in the feel-good driving experience that the electric drive delivers even when the engine starts and while running.

To cater more precisely to different road surfaces and vehicle operating status, SNOW and SPORT modes join the NORMAL and LOCK 4WD powertrain modes on the previous model.

    SNOW mode: Gives better stability and control over snow-covered and other slippery surfaces. LOCK mode has been tailored to cater more for poor road surfaces, giving higher levels of traction and more driver reassurance.

    SPORT mode: Gives the driver more direct control with improved throttle response and turning characteristics for greater enjoyment when sport driving on dry tarmac surfaces.

Body rigidity has been increased with the use of structural adhesive and by increasing the panel joint overlap area in the front and rear doors, as well as the luggage compartment opening and the wheel house/body panel joins (areas using structural adhesive increased on S Edition).

The use of larger front and rear dampers and a new type of damper valve gives improved ride quality as well as higher levels of handling and stability matching with smooth driving feel that the electric drive delivers (S Edition excluded).

The use of a faster steering-gear ratio and optimization of the electric power steering control to match this gives better steering feel and quality and a more natural steering response.

Now we'll just have to wait for one of the automags to review it and see how much of a real-world difference (if any) all of this makes - the engine, battery, motor/generator, steering and suspension changes are all theoretically steps in the right direction.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

jjeff
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Re: Official Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV SUV thread

Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:54 pm

Unless I missed it, I don't see anything about that 20% larger engine, getting better MPG :roll: which was my main complaint about the Outlander PHEV, not so great MPG running on gas only, as in a long road trip.
The Volt also upsized their ICE after introduction and I just don't understand it, why increase the size of the ICE on a vehicle that often times runs on battery and can use the battery motor to give more power to an undersized ICE......
I believe the Prius also did this from introduction, I believe our '07 is a 1.5L?? while later Prius's got a 1.7L(I could be wrong on this but I seem to remember it).
When our '07 Prius dies we'll be looking for a PHEV for road trips and also zero emission for my wife's 15-mile commute, we can then get rid of the Prius as well as our '12 Leaf SL. I'm intrigued by Outlander PHEV, we sat in one in our state fair just yesterday and it seemed quite nice. More room behind the rear seats than the Leaf(not sure about how it compares to the Prius but its space is higher) more headroom than the Leaf and for sure Prius, more rear seat room than the Leaf and Prius. It's one drawback is the highway MPG, where something like a PHEV Prius would shine. I also like the idea of the heat pump on the Prius, I doubt the Outlander has that.
Couple of things I didn't care about the Mitsubishi was it looked like in order to get a heated steering wheel one must get the top trim, although lower trim levels seem to have heated front seats. I also didn't care so much for the vinal seats, I much prefer cloth like say my '13S Leaf has, not fond of the light velour seats on my '12 though, just an accident waiting to happen and shows everything! Not a fan of leather either.
All in all I was pretty impressed with the Outlander PHEV, just wish instead of upsizing the ICE they'd concentrate on increasing the ICE MPG of whatever engine they put in it, that and a larger battery, which they seem to have done, albeit by a small amount, still better than nothing!
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GRA
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Re: Official Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV SUV thread

Sat Sep 01, 2018 1:57 pm

jjeff wrote:Unless I missed it, I don't see anything about that 20% larger engine, getting better MPG :roll: which was my main complaint about the Outlander PHEV, not so great MPG running on gas only, as in a long road trip.

Yes, 25mpg was pretty lousy, but the mpg should be better with the 2019 as it uses the Atkinson cycle while cruising and has more power and torque, while the 2.0L was straight Otto cycle. The 2nd gen. Volt is also Atkinson cycle (it's also an Al instead of Fe block, saving weight).

jjeff wrote:The Volt also upsized their ICE after introduction and I just don't understand it, why increase the size of the ICE on a vehicle that often times runs on battery and can use the battery motor to give more power to an undersized ICE......<snip>

Because the undersized ICE has to run more often, heavily loaded and often less efficiently (not to mention with more NVH), resulting in lower fuel economy and less desirable characteristics for the customer. In short, you often have to thrash them, which is why small turbo-charged engines often get worse gas mileage IRL than the larger engines they replaced, despite performing better in EPA tests. In the case of the Volt, the bigger engine of Gen 2 gets 2 mpg better combined EPA, although undoubtedly that isn't all due to the engine.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 9094
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
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Re: Official Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV SUV thread

Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:28 pm

Via IEVS:
2019 Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV First Drive Review
https://insideevs.com/2019-mitsubishi-outlander-phev-first-drive-review/

. . . The cabin hasn’t changed much either, with a few new buttons and a revised instrument cluster joining the party, but it’s largely a case of same old, same old. It’s well put together and everything seems to work quite well, but it’s a bit bland.

Don’t be fooled by the aesthetic consistency, though – the Outlander’s oily bits have had a near-total overhaul.

A series of changes, including updated steering and revised suspension, are designed to improve the car’s handling, but the biggest changes involve the hybrid system. . . .

.the old 2-liter engine has been replaced with a larger, more powerful 2.4-litre unit, while the electric motor on the rear axle has had a power boost, too. There’s also a slightly bigger battery, which enables the 2019 Outlander to manage 28 miles on electricity before the petrol engine kicks in.

Official fuel economy figures have fallen slightly, too, although most drivers would still be delighted to manage 139 mpg, and all will be pleased to know that 46g/km CO2 emissions mean the Outlander PHEV is still exempt from paying London’s Congestion Charge.

And for those wondering why the new car, complete with its larger battery, is less economical than its predecessor, it’s all down to the testing procedure. The new ‘real-world’ WLTP economy test, is far more stringent than its predecessor, and it’s brought the figures down noticeably.

If you get the cars on the road (and refrain from driving as though your hair’s on fire), you’ll find that both the new car and its predecessor are capable of 30 miles on a charge. If anything, in fact, the new model might have slightly more range and possibly better economy. It’s difficult to tell on a single road test across varied terrain.

What it definitely does have is more power. The engine’s only 14 bhp more powerful than before, and the rear motor has an advantage of just 13 bhp over its predecessor – it doesn’t sound like much, but it results in a half-second reduction in the 0-62 mph time.

The seemingly small changes to the car’s steering and suspension have had a sizeable effect, too. The newcomer feels tauter and more composed than its predecessor, with the steering eliciting a sharper response from the front wheels.

Sadly, the changes to the suspension have been less positive. The car’s lost some of its composure on uneven surfaces, and it feels a little wallowier than before.


It’s quiet and refined in zero-emission electric mode, and the more potent motor allows the big SUV to travel at motorway cruising speeds without employing the help of the petrol engine. At those speeds, though, you really notice the absence of internal combustion, with wind and road noise becoming more prominent.

At such speeds, though, the battery will soon run dry and the engine will kick in to provide assistance. It isn’t an especially noisy powerplant – certainly no worse than most four-cylinder diesels – but it does drone when it’s under load, particularly if you’re in ‘Sport’ mode.

The plug-in hybrid Outlander is a slightly more capable car than its predecessor, but it still has its flaws. The cabin quality is reasonable, without being brilliant, and the looks are still neither here nor there. The 2019 car isn’t a massive step up from its forebears, either, so if you’re thinking of trading in a year-old PHEV, there’s no great rush . . . .

So, useful improvements but could use more suspension work, which along with steering has always been where the Korean companies have fallen short. They seem to be learning re the steering.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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