Lon12
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Re: Official Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV SUV thread

Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:21 pm

I had a chance to do a long test drive yesterday. I was able to drive from home to work and back on a single charge. Just over 30 Km at zero degrees celsius. In EV mode the engine never kicked in. Even full accelerator pedal deflection does not start the ICE.
Frustrating that they don't include more EV information in the displays. The battery indicator does not use % values. Even when plugged in there is no indication of charging rate. No volts, amps or watts. :(
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AndyH
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Re: Official Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV SUV thread

Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:48 pm

GRA wrote:For a review that expresses my own reservations* about the Outlander PHEV in the U.S. market, see
Flash Drive: 2018 Mitsubishi Outlander Plug-In Hybrid plugs in budget-conscious greenies
http://www.nydailynews.com/autos/latest-reviews/flash-drive-2018-mitsubishi-outlander-plug-in-hybrid-review-article-1.3785887

*I personally don't care about the lack of touchscreens, in-built nav etc. and prefer physical controls, but agree with the other concerns.

As for charging, you'll be tethered to the wall for four hours using a DC Fast Charger,
:roll: :lol: :lol:
23 minutes from empty to 80% using CHAdeMO. Even at a Starbucks. ;) (Look for the white bear...)
https://www.plugshare.com/location/60909

As for overall handling, I've been driving Euro cars since about 1983 and prefer the way they handle as compared with the relatively 'mushy and disconnected' feeling of US or Japanese tuning. Yet I like the way this car feels - the ride is smooth in both the city and highway. The power steering isn't over-boosted (like I experienced in a Prius and my drives in a 2010 LEAF). It's a 4000 lb car - it's absolutely not as 'go cart like' as my smart but it shouldn't be. But it was fun to thrash around an icy parking lot on the way home from Minneapolis! :lol:

...the splendid leather seating available with the range-topping GT trim...

North American vehicles have two trims - SEL and GT - both have the same leather seats.

Based on a day's driving (a whole day! LOL), most likely driving it like a gas car, the author claims hills are too much for the drive train. Yeah, ok - let's ignore that the European tow rating is 1500 kg, not 1500 lbs, and that owners tow travel trailers through the Alps with their Outlander PHEVs. There is a noticeable difference in hill-climbing performance at 70 mph with a depleted battery, no doubt, as the 117 hp ICE is moving the car by itself. Keep a bit of charge, though, and the car's moved up the hill by 117 hp + 80 from the pair of electric motors. That's a whole different story.

As for touch screens, the car has a 7 inch infotainment screen and as far as I can tell every square cm of it is full of touchysensorystuff. The screen controls the AM/FM/satellite/USB/bluetooth audio system. It will display plenty of efficiency info. It also connects via USB to a smart phone using AndroidAuto or the Apple equivalent to display maps. It has integrated voice commands, hands-free calls and texting, etc. I prefer this system for maps as Google's maps are pretty much always up to date - one doesn't have to spend $150 every year for a map update from the dealer.

HVAC controls are separate and logical, and placed in the center of the dash where we naturally expect them to be - one doesn't have to scroll through menus to bump up the temperature a degree.

My take? Crap article from someone paid by the word and clearly not a subject matter expert - and probably not someone with many 'pilot in command' hours in a plug-in car.

To be fair, this model Outlander is at the end of the cycle. The 2019 is rumored to have a completely new design and at least twice the range.
http://forococheselectricos.com/2017/10/mitsubishi-outlander-phev-2019-doble-autonomia-electrica.html


Yeah, it's just a city car. :lol:



Last edited by AndyH on Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:04 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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AndyH
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Re: Official Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV SUV thread

Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:11 pm

So far, at the 1900 mile mark, my average fuel economy is 50. All of my local trips are 100% electric.

I took a 170 mile drive up I-35 to Cabela's** starting with about half a charge and 9 EV miles showing on the guess-o-meter. Speeds ranged from suburban 35/45 mph, to afternoon rush hour stop and start, to regular interstate driving. The only thing I did for economy was kept my speed below 65...most of the time. ;) I used charge hold most of the trip, keeping about 30% charge. Fuel economy outbound was 41.3 MPG (46% EV). For the round trip, fuel economy was 36 MPG.

Most people would see '9 miles of EV range' and decide the drive would be about 5% electric. The reality was that the trip was about 40% electric. This is because the computer controls the ICE - the driver doesn't. Driving up the road at 65 only uses about 1/3 of the available power from the ICE - and that leaves plenty of room for the ICE to run at it's most efficient speed while also recharging the battery.

**That's a drive I've been wanting to make for almost a year - I got a gift certificate for my birthday last year. My smart would have needed four charge stops to make the trip and it doesn't have fast charge capability. There isn't infrastructure in the right places to make the trip possible, even if I wanted to spend 15 hours getting L2 charges enroute.
"The stupid become extinct."-Bill Mollison
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GRA
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Re: Official Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV SUV thread

Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:11 pm

Via IEVS:
2019 Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV Gets 15% Bigger Battery, Range Improves
https://insideevs.com/new-2019-mitsubishi-outlander-phev-with-15-more-battery-capacity/

. . . The new 2019 version – scheduled for early fall (Europe) – will get more all-electric range, but not much more. Here are the details:

    A 2.4 Atkinson cycle petrol engine replaces the previous regular Otto cycle 2.0 liter. It allows for higher torque, smoother operation, and overall higher efficiency
    The generator output is increased by 10%
    The rear motor output is increased by 10%
    The drive battery capacity is increased by 15% (13.8 kWh instead 12 kWh)
    The drive battery output is increased by 10%

    Other changes are design tweaks and two more driving modes (SPORT gives the driver more direct control for greater driving enjoyment on winding roads and SNOW mode provides greater confidence on snow-covered, or slippery surfaces). . . .

    The outside appearance of the vehicle has been enhanced with a number of subtle improvements, such as new LED tech-look headlamps, rectangular front fog lamp bezels, a more substantial front grille with the DYNAMIC SHIELD visual identity, and a front center cover skid plate. A more elaborate multi-spoke two-tone design for the new 18 inch alloy wheels, and the addition of a larger rear spoiler give the car a sharper and more sophisticated look.

    Inside, changes underscore a quality feeling, highlighted by the new quilted fine leather upholstery, all-new hip-hugging front seats, revised switchgear, a new instrument panel, new trimming, rear A/C outlets, and more. . . .

The power and Sport modes are improvements I'd want, for better driving dynamics and acceleration (for passing - I don't care about 0-60), but we'll have too see just what effect they have. Hopefully the Atkinson cycle will improve the HWY mpg, but I'd expect a greater effect on the City cycle, and it remains to be seen what effect it will have on NVH.
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Re: Official Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV SUV thread

Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:04 pm

Isn't the Mitsubishi like the Volt in that the ICE basically runs a generator that both charges the battery and powers the electric motors that propel the vehicle? If thats the case why does it need such a large ICE? I mean the Volt could get by with a 1.5L ICE, why would the Outlander need to be larger? Again unless it's actually directly powering the wheels, a generator sure the heck doesn't need to be 2400cc or even 2000cc for that matter :?

While I applaud their efforts I still say they are clueless about the N. American market :roll:
For one, battery size. Why not just make it 16kw so we can get the full rebate, anything less is just money left on the table as well as less range :?
"all-new hip-hugging front seats" F* that! Most Americans are fat(obese actually) no one wants "hip-hugging front seats" ala the Bolt or Volt, actually give us seats that are comfortable and not crap people have to bolster with their own foam or re-engineer!

No mention of something that would be a real improvement, a heat pump heater, only Toyota and their Prius Prime seems to understand the importance of that with a vehicle with a relatively small battery.
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LeftieBiker
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Re: Official Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV SUV thread

Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:04 pm

only Toyota and their Prius Prime seems to understand the importance of that with a vehicle with a relatively small battery.


It took years of me and other people in the Prius PHEV driver's group repeatedly calling on them to provide a heat pump. They didn't do it quickly or happily.
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Re: Official Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV SUV thread

Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:35 pm

jjeff wrote:Isn't the Mitsubishi like the Volt in that the ICE basically runs a generator that both charges the battery and powers the electric motors that propel the vehicle? If thats the case why does it need such a large ICE? I mean the Volt could get by with a 1.5L ICE, why would the Outlander need to be larger? Again unless it's actually directly powering the wheels, a generator sure the heck doesn't need to be 2400cc or even 2000cc for that matter :?

I forget if the Outlander has a parallel mode as well as series mode. Re the size of the engine, the volt' weighs considerably less and is a lot more aerodynamic. It may also be that the engine's that big because NVH of a smaller one was judged unacceptable, which was probably a factor in the Volt's engine getting bigger and more powerful from gen 1 to 2, although the desire to reduce the number of occasions when the ICE needed help from the battery may also have been a factor. It's also true that the Gen 2 Volt gets better Hwy mpg than the Gen 1,which may be due to the engine having to work less hard, although other powertrain changes may have more to do with that.

jjeff wrote:While I applaud their efforts I still say they are clueless about the N. American market :roll:
For one, battery size. Why not just make it 16kw so we can get the full rebate, anything less is just money left on the table as well as less range :?
Presumably because they can't fit that big a battery in yet without encroaching on cargo space, and for most people who want an CUV/SUV, maximum utility is more important than maximum AER.

jjeff wrote:"all-new hip-hugging front seats" F* that! Most Americans are fat(obese actually) no one wants "hip-hugging front seats" ala the Bolt or Volt, actually give us seats that are comfortable and not crap people have to bolster with their own foam or re-engineer!

Some of us are fine with the Bolt's seats, but U.S. demographics do skew wide and heavy. Perhaps it will encourage people to get more exercise and lead healthier lifestyles - yeah, right :roll:
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

AndyH
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Re: Official Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV SUV thread

Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:04 am

jjeff wrote:Isn't the Mitsubishi like the Volt in that the ICE basically runs a generator that both charges the battery and powers the electric motors that propel the vehicle? If thats the case why does it need such a large ICE? I mean the Volt could get by with a 1.5L ICE, why would the Outlander need to be larger? Again unless it's actually directly powering the wheels, a generator sure the heck doesn't need to be 2400cc or even 2000cc for that matter :?

While I applaud their efforts I still say they are clueless about the N. American market :roll:
For one, battery size. Why not just make it 16kw so we can get the full rebate, anything less is just money left on the table as well as less range :?
"all-new hip-hugging front seats" F* that! Most Americans are fat(obese actually) no one wants "hip-hugging front seats" ala the Bolt or Volt, actually give us seats that are comfortable and not crap people have to bolster with their own foam or re-engineer!

No mention of something that would be a real improvement, a heat pump heater, only Toyota and their Prius Prime seems to understand the importance of that with a vehicle with a relatively small battery.

The rebate isn't a universal thing - I've purchased three plug-ins so far and haven't gotten a rebate for either the vehicles or even most of the EVSE rebate.

The Outlander PHEV has three modes - EV, series hybrid and parallel hybrid. Because there's no transmission between the ICE and the front drivetrain, the car only goes into parallel hybrid mode when climbing hills or when high power is needed (like cruising at 80 in a headwind with the AC running). (ETA...that wasn't very clear. Because there's a fixed gear ratio between the ICE and front wheels, the car cannot go into parallel hybrid mode until it's traveling fast enough to be in the ICE's torque curve [about 40 mph minimum]. It's configured to be a 'boost engine' for high speed driving or pulling a hill when the battery's low.)

The 2L ICE is properly sized for a 4WD car this size that can also haul a load or tow.

A heat pump is a weight/expense trade-off. I experienced the effectiveness of the electric heater and heated seats on an overnight drive at -7°F and they work well. And with heat available from the ICE as it cycles on and off, there's not much point in a heat pump.

This car's a PHEV-20, not an EV. Different animal.

The seats are quite comfortable - on par with my in-law's Lexus LS400 sedan. Both fronts are 6-way power adjustable, and they recline flat. Combined with the reclining rear seats, they make a pair of comfy beds.

The battery uses the same box and electronics as the iMiev, which is already engineered, tested, and in production. I'm guessing that's the biggest reason why this car has the battery it has.
Last edited by AndyH on Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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GRA
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Re: Official Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV SUV thread

Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:19 pm

Via IEVS, Alex's usual highly-detailed review:
Alex On Autos Reviews 2018 Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV
https://insideevs.com/alex-autos-reviews-2018-mitsubishi-outlander-phev/

Summary:
All-in-all, the Outlander PHEV is a much better SUV than the low-rated ICE variant, but it still leaves a lot to be desired. However, if you’re shopping for a compact crossover with a plug, this is really your only choice in the U.S. at this time, and it’s priced right at $34,595.

I think they really need the engine mod of the 2019 to make the car more desirable for the U.S. market, but there seems to be some doubt as to whether these mods will be available on non-Euro-spec cars that year, which IMO would be ridiculous. As noted upthread, I'd personally want better handling as well, along with better HWY fuel economy.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

AndyH
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Re: Official Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV SUV thread

Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:59 pm

GRA wrote:Via IEVS, Alex's usual highly-detailed review:
Alex On Autos Reviews 2018 Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV
https://insideevs.com/alex-autos-reviews-2018-mitsubishi-outlander-phev/

Summary:
All-in-all, the Outlander PHEV is a much better SUV than the low-rated ICE variant, but it still leaves a lot to be desired. However, if you’re shopping for a compact crossover with a plug, this is really your only choice in the U.S. at this time, and it’s priced right at $34,595.

I think they really need the engine mod of the 2019 to make the car more desirable for the U.S. market, but there seems to be some doubt as to whether these mods will be available on non-Euro-spec cars that year, which IMO would be ridiculous. As noted upthread, I'd personally want better handling as well, along with better HWY fuel economy.

Decent review and the tech points appear to be accurate as far as they go. There are two really important points that are quickly passed over: he talks about fuel economy for longer trips when not plugging-in, and for his budget numbers he uses the EPA standard 15,000 mile year and their combined mode fuel economy which are determined when not plugging-in.

I have no idea why some people think that the car needs a larger ICE. Same for highway fuel economy. My highway fuel economy in normal driving (like the 180 mile round trip to my in-law's) is in the mid-30s with no en-route or destination charging. Most of my driving is still 100% electric and my average is still over 50 MPG. I also don't agree with the reviewer's handling assessment, but meh. I drive mine daily and he just gets a day without plugging in. :lol:
"The stupid become extinct."-Bill Mollison
2018 Outlander PHEV
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