SageBrush
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Re: Tesla Supercharger Network

Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:12 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:This makes a purchase decision quite difficult although with recent news, I don't know what the SC rates will be as I was under impression that it would be 11 cents/kwh but that is apparently only an S/X rate?


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scottf200
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Re: Tesla Supercharger Network

Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:43 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:Don't have to go to China to see that. Tesla has urban SCs planned for nearly every "somewhat" major city in Western WA. I went from 5 in my region planned to a dozen by 2018. The plans are very ambitious.

This makes a purchase decision quite difficult although with recent news, I don't know what the SC rates will be as I was under impression that it would be 11 cents/kwh but that is apparently only an S/X rate?

SC are mainly for traveling unless you can't charge at home (apartment/condo/etc). Most will charge at their homes with cheaper rates than they would get at SCs.

I've never seen anything that says there is a different rate for S/X vs 3s. S/X get 400 kWh annually before being charged. 3s do not. If you got the S/X using a referral (even to yourself if you are a current owner upgrading or buying another for spouse, etc) then you still get lifetime supercharging. that referral last until end of 2017 (unless it is added again for enticing sales in 2018).

Re: different charge rates

https://www.theverge.com/2017/1/12/1425 ... r-charging
For example, drivers in California will pay $0.20/kWh, while New York charging will cost $0.19/kWh, and Illinois charging for $0.15/kWh. Affected Tesla owners will enter their credit card number on Tesla’s website, where all charging will be managed.


https://www.tesla.com/blog/building-sup ... ork-future
If customers travel beyond their annual credit, they will be charged a small fee to Supercharge. In North America, pricing is fixed within each state or province; overseas, pricing is fixed within each country. In most regions, Tesla owners will pay per kWh as it’s the fairest way to pay for the exact energy used. However, due to local regulations, in several regions we will charge per minute of usage instead, though we are actively working with regulators to update the rules. What’s important is that in every region, Supercharging will remain simple, seamless and always significantly cheaper than gasoline. We are only aiming to recover a portion of our costs and set up a fair system for everyone; this will never be a profit center for Tesla. Customers can just plug in, charge up, and access their charging history on our website.
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DaveinOlyWA
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Re: Tesla Supercharger Network

Sun Oct 29, 2017 10:47 am

scottf200 wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:Don't have to go to China to see that. Tesla has urban SCs planned for nearly every "somewhat" major city in Western WA. I went from 5 in my region planned to a dozen by 2018. The plans are very ambitious.

This makes a purchase decision quite difficult although with recent news, I don't know what the SC rates will be as I was under impression that it would be 11 cents/kwh but that is apparently only an S/X rate?

SC are mainly for traveling unless you can't charge at home (apartment/condo/etc). Most will charge at their homes with cheaper rates than they would get at SCs.

I've never seen anything that says there is a different rate for S/X vs 3s. S/X get 400 kWh annually before being charged. 3s do not. If you got the S/X using a referral (even to yourself if you are a current owner upgrading or buying another for spouse, etc) then you still get lifetime supercharging. that referral last until end of 2017 (unless it is added again for enticing sales in 2018).

Re: different charge rates

https://www.theverge.com/2017/1/12/1425 ... r-charging
For example, drivers in California will pay $0.20/kWh, while New York charging will cost $0.19/kWh, and Illinois charging for $0.15/kWh. Affected Tesla owners will enter their credit card number on Tesla’s website, where all charging will be managed.


https://www.tesla.com/blog/building-sup ... ork-future
If customers travel beyond their annual credit, they will be charged a small fee to Supercharge. In North America, pricing is fixed within each state or province; overseas, pricing is fixed within each country. In most regions, Tesla owners will pay per kWh as it’s the fairest way to pay for the exact energy used. However, due to local regulations, in several regions we will charge per minute of usage instead, though we are actively working with regulators to update the rules. What’s important is that in every region, Supercharging will remain simple, seamless and always significantly cheaper than gasoline. We are only aiming to recover a portion of our costs and set up a fair system for everyone; this will never be a profit center for Tesla. Customers can just plug in, charge up, and access their charging history on our website.



Well, I am guessing you can find it easily enough but the quid pro quo is extrapolating assumptive data from tweets and the variance in SC rates was one done by others so its a who knows, we'll see but the reality is that it won't change my mind in one way or another anyway.

As far as SC's though, there is a LOT of talk that the urban locations have a different role that is both for apt dwellers and local travellers to grab a boost and these stations will be at a lower power level. I think 80 KW was mentioned somewhere?

As far as the statement that SCs are designed to be used for long distance travel?

Hard to accept that when we have 3 in Seattle along with one in Bellevue, Redmond and Lynwood. This makes 6 locations in an area that measures roughly 25 miles by 10ish?
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dgpcolorado
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Re: Tesla Supercharger Network

Sun Oct 29, 2017 11:32 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:Well, I am guessing you can find it easily enough but the quid pro quo is extrapolating assumptive data from tweets and the variance in SC rates was one done by others so its a who knows, we'll see but the reality is that it won't change my mind in one way or another anyway.

As far as SC's though, there is a LOT of talk that the urban locations have a different role that is both for apt dwellers and local travellers to grab a boost and these stations will be at a lower power level. I think 80 KW was mentioned somewhere?

As far as the statement that SCs are designed to be used for long distance travel?

Hard to accept that when we have 3 in Seattle along with one in Bellevue, Redmond and Lynwood. This makes 6 locations in an area that measures roughly 25 miles by 10ish?
The urban Superchargers charge at 72 kW; since they aren't paired, as with regular Superchargers, the charge rate isn't limited by someone else being on the same circuit.

Urban Superchargers are intended for locals to use, especially apartment dwellers without access to home or workplace charging. The ongoing infill of regular Supercharger Stations in cities is also to reduce congestion from locals charging. The fees being charged for Supercharging should help defray some of the cost of the network, perhaps also to discourage charging by those who don't really need it, and the idle charge is intended induce drivers to move their cars once charging is complete (a problem with a few inconsiderate locals who leave their cars at a Supercharger for long periods of time).

You can find the current prices for Supercharging on the Supercharging website. Although it was set up for the Model S/X there are reports from Model 3 drivers that they are being charged in the same way for Supercharging.

The current rates on the Tesla website for USA:

Code: Select all


Alabama        $0.18 per minute above 60 kW, $0.09 per minute at or below 60 kW

Arizona        $0.16 per minute above 60 kW, $0.08 per minute at or below 60 kW

California     $0.20 per kWh

Colorado       $0.13 per kWh

Connecticut    $0.26 per minute above 60 kW, $0.13 per minute at or below 60 kW

Delaware       $0.18 per minute above 60 kW, $0.09 per minute at or below 60 kW

Florida        $0.13 per kWh

Georgia        $0.16 per minute above 60 kW, $0.08 per minute at or below 60 kW

Idaho          $0.12 per kWh

Illinois       $0.15 per kWh

Indiana        $0.16 per minute above 60 kW, $0.08 per minute at or below 60 kW

Iowa           $0.16 per minute above 60 kW, $0.08 per minute at or below 60 kW

Kansas         $0.18 per minute above 60 kW, $0.09 per minute at or below 60 kW

Kentucky       $0.16 per minute above 60 kW, $0.08 per minute at or below 60 kW

Lousiana       $0.14 per minute above 60 kW, $0.07 per minute at or below 60 kW

Maine          $0.21 per kWh

Maryland       $0.16 per kWh

Massachusetts  $0.22 per kWh

Minnesota      $0.14 per kWh

Michigan       $0.20 per minute above 60 kW, $0.10 per minute at or below 60 kW

Mississippi    $0.16 per minute above 60 kW, $0.08 per minute at or below 60 kW

Missouri       $0.16 per minute above 60 kW, $0.08 per minute at or below 60 kW

Montana        $0.16 per minute above 60 kW, $0.08 per minute at or below 60 kW

Nebraska       $0.16 per minute above 60 kW, $0.08 per minute at or below 60 kW

Nevada         $0.18 per minute above 60 kW, $0.09 per minute at or below 60 kW

New Hampshire  $0.24 per minute above 60 kW, $0.12 per minute at or below 60 kW

New Jersey     $0.20 per minute above 60 kW, $0.10 per minute at or below 60 kW

New Mexico     $0.16 per minute above 60 kW, $0.08 per minute at or below 60 kW

New York        $0.19 per kWh

North Carolina  $0.16 per minute above 60 kW, $0.08 per minute at or below 60 kW

Ohio            $0.18 per minute above 60 kW, $0.09 per minute at or below 60 kW

Oklahoma        $0.16 per minute above 60 kW, $0.08 per minute at or below 60 kW

Oregon          $0.12 per kWh

Pennsylvania    $0.20 per minute above 60 kW, $0.10 per minute at or below 60 kW

Rhode Island    $0.24 per minute above 60 kW, $0.12 per minute at or below 60 kW

South Carolina  $0.18 per minute above 60 kW, $0.09 per minute at or below 60 kW

South Dakota    $0.16 per minute above 60 kW, $0.08 per minute at or below 60 kW

Tennessee       $0.16 per minute above 60 kW, $0.08 per minute at or below 60 kW

Texas           $0.16 per minute above 60 kW, $0.08 per minute at or below 60 kW

Utah            $0.13 per kWh

Vermont         $0.22 per minute above 60 kW, $0.11 per minute at or below 60 kW

Virginia        $0.13 per kWh

Washington      $0.11 per kWh

West Virginia   $0.11 per kWh

Wisconsin       $0.20 per minute above 60 kW, $0.10 per minute at or below 60 kW

Wyoming         $0.16 per minute above 60 kW, $0.08 per minute at or below 60 kW

[Since I assembled this data myself by brute force, it may have some inaccuracies.]


The reason that some states are per kWh and some are per minute has to do with whether or not the state allows a non-utility to sell electricity. The two tier per minute rates reflect the fact that charging tapers as the battery fills and are an attempt to emulate a per kWh rate on average.

FWIW.
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scottf200
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Re: Tesla Supercharger Network

Sun Oct 29, 2017 11:51 am

dpgcolorado had a thoughtful and informative post about Urban SCs.

From the Tesla site he point you to was this viewpoint that gives you their intended use: https://www.tesla.com/support/supercharging

Q: Do Superchargers in urban areas charge as quickly as other Superchargers? How long will charging take?
A: Consistent with the rest of our network, Superchargers in urban areas are located in places where it’s convenient to spend time, like grocery stores or shopping centers, which means owners can charge while going about their weekly routine. Superchargers in urban areas deliver a nearly consistent 72 kilowatts (kW) of power, even if another Tesla begins charging in an adjacent stall. This creates a predictable charging experience with an average Supercharging session lasting around 45-50 minutes in city centers.

Q: How will the installation of Superchargers in urban areas be prioritized relative to Superchargers along long-distance routes?
A: We will continue to build out Supercharger stations that support both long distance travel and urban living so that charging is always convenient, abundant, and reliable no matter where you go. Please refer to the interactive Supercharger map for current and upcoming stations.

Q: Do I need to install charging at home now that these new Superchargers are available?
A: The convenience of home charging is one of the best ways to live with a Tesla and there is no need to travel to get a full charge. We recommend an easily installable Level 2 charging solution at home whenever possible. Superchargers are ideal while home charging is being established, while on a road trip, or while visiting from out of town.
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Durandal
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Re: Tesla Supercharger Network

Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:34 am

I am sure this happens with superchargers, but one of the problems I've been finding with L2 chargers in my area is people in PHEVs camping out at L2 chargers to get their "free" power when it arguably isn't needed. I have to rush to a certain L2 location if I need an extra charge in my Leaf for errands to beat the Volt that will campt out at the L2 for 5 hours during a day. I don't understand the logic of people making a big effort to save $1/day when it's easier and simpler to just plug in at home. If the Superchargers are in any cases cheaper than charging at home, you'll have people who will do it, even if it would be more convenient to plug in at home. All the L2 chargers around here are free, but I only utilize them if I really need to, otherwise I go plug in at home.. Sigh.
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finman100
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Re: Tesla Supercharger Network

Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:04 am

difference is quantity of spaces at a Supercharger.

some have 12 spots versus a Chademo (or an L2 for that matter) that have only one spot per location! And if that one spot is broken or occupied when u get there? On to the next crap shoot...
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dgpcolorado
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Re: Tesla Supercharger Network

Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:37 am

Durandal wrote:I am sure this happens with superchargers, but one of the problems I've been finding with L2 chargers in my area is people in PHEVs camping out at L2 chargers to get their "free" power when it arguably isn't needed. I have to rush to a certain L2 location if I need an extra charge in my Leaf for errands to beat the Volt that will campt out at the L2 for 5 hours during a day. I don't understand the logic of people making a big effort to save $1/day when it's easier and simpler to just plug in at home. If the Superchargers are in any cases cheaper than charging at home, you'll have people who will do it, even if it would be more convenient to plug in at home. All the L2 chargers around here are free, but I only utilize them if I really need to, otherwise I go plug in at home.. Sigh.
This has been a problem with Superchargers in some places heavily populated with Teslas, such as much of California and a few spots on the East Coast. Tesla is dealing with the problem in several ways:

• They are rapidly building new Supercharger Stations and expanding existing ones with more stalls. Some newer Supercharger Stations have 20 to 40 stalls (compare that to most Chademo or CCS charge stations).

• They have instituted a fee for charging for the Model 3. [At the present time, most Model S/X cars are grandfathered with free charging.] The fee is intended to be roughly the same as the electricity rate in that state, so there is little incentive to Supercharge when one has home charging available. Even with the fee, using a Supercharger is cheaper than buying gas (less than half the cost in my state).

• They have instituted an "idle fee" that charges a car for sitting at a Supercharger after it has finished charging:
"We designed the Supercharger network to enable a seamless, enjoyable road trip experience. Therefore, we understand that it can be frustrating to arrive at a station only to discover fully charged Tesla cars occupying all the spots. To create a better experience for all owners, we’re introducing a fleet-wide idle fee that aims to increase Supercharger availability."

The idle fee is 40¢/minute once charging is complete. There is a five minute grace period during which the fee is waived if the car is moved. A Tesla driver can monitor the SOC of the car using the Tesla app on a smart phone, so there is no real reason not to know when the car is finished charging.

The idle fee only applies if the Supercharger station is at least 50% full. On most road trips it would be very rare for a Supercharger Station away from large metro areas to be near full (there are some exceptions in California, especially around holidays). So, the idle fee isn't a concern at the vast majority of Supercharger Stations. However, when on a road trip the fastest travel time is to charge just enough to get to the next Supercharger Station, so waiting around for a full charge isn't something that is usually done. The idea behind the idle fee is to discourage locals from leaving their cars at a Supercharger Station, blocking others from using it.
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scottf200
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Re: Tesla Supercharger Network

Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:08 pm

Another pretty decent month with a lot of construction ones added as well. Laramie had a stop/start so I excluded it.

Via supercharge.info
Image
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Re: Tesla Supercharger Network

Wed Nov 01, 2017 7:13 pm

End of October summary. 20 U.S. SCs opened last month, making 92 for the year and 432 total: Carlisle, PA (10/1; Jct. I-76/81 capacity); Colby, KS (10/2; I-70 density infill); National Harbor, MD (10/2; I-95 capacity); Weston, WV (10/2; I-79 density infill); Franklin Park, PA (10/3; capacity); Wausau, WI (10/6; Jct. U.S. 51/S.R.'s 29 & 52); Brooklyn, NY (10/9; Urban); Laramie, WY (10/12; I-80); Salinas, CA (10/14; U.S. 101 density infill); Sacramento, CA (10/14 (Jct. I-5/80 density infill); Tucson, AZ (I-10; 10/15); Oxford, AL (10/15; I-20 density infill); Oacoma, SD (10/16; I-90 density infill); Rolling Meadows, IL (10/18; I-90 density/capacity); Freeport, ME (10/19; I-95 density infill); Rochester, MN (10/21; Jct. U.S. 14/52); Florence, SC (10/21; Jct. I-20/95, density infill); Cookeville, TN (10/23; I-40 density infill); Spearfish, SD (10/30; I-90 density infill); Sioux Falls, SD (10/30; Jct. I-29/90 density infill).

35 U.S. SCs are known to be under construction: Fremont - Kato Rd., Kettleman City, San Clemente, Yermo, Baker and Concord, CA; Willcox and Phoenix, AZ; Deming, NM; Lone Tree - Park Meadows #2, CO; Austin, TX; Sherburn, MN; Oak Creek and Madison- E. Washington Ave., WI; Muskegon, Big Rapids, Gaylord, Auburn, Roseville and Livonia, MI; Toledo, OH; Coral Gables and W. Melbourne, FL; Beckley, WV; Raleigh & Greensboro, NC; Bellefonte, PA; Richmond & Mt. Jackson, VA; Gaithersburg, MD; Lewes, DE; Woodbridge, NJ; Danbury and Manchester, CT; Leominster, MA.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 Canadian SCs opened last month, in Saint-Romuald and Brossard, QC, making 30 total.

6 Canadian SCs are known to be under construction: Sudbury, Owen Sound, Barrie North & Markham, ON; Laval and Mascouche, QC.
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