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EVDRIVER
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Re: Tesla Supercharger Network

Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:00 pm

I don't know any one that pays $.15 on PGE especially with an EV except in fantasy land.

Evoforce
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Re: Tesla Supercharger Network

Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:49 pm

Well, I don't live in California, so my thought process is for very little regulation and rules on Supercharger stations. Beyond being courteous, the less rules the better. I am happy about idle fees and beyond that happy to hear about fleet alternatives. I hope that the current usage plan doesn't change.
Last edited by Evoforce on Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
*2011 Leaf 1 bought 2/28/15 @ 28,000ish mi 10 bar (8 bars @ 11/25/15 @ 37,453 ) (New lizard @ 39,275 mi @ 1/20/2016) Now 52,166 mi.
*Tesla Model S 61,000 mi
*2011 Leaf 2 bought 4/28/15 @ 24,000ish mi 12 bar (new lizard Dec. 2014 @ 22,273 mi) Now 35,485 mi

DaveinOlyWA
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Re: Tesla Supercharger Network

Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:12 pm

abasile wrote:
EVDRIVER wrote:Now if they would just limit supercharging to outside owners geographic area it will make the system useful. Far too many local people have no home charging and charge to 100% sometimes daily clogging up statins. The policy above should have been in place a long time ago and I'm not sure how they intend to enforce it. Many car services use certain stations many times daily.

While this is a real problem, I would be very disappointed with a policy that completely prohibits the use of "local" Superchargers. What if I'm on my way home from a long drive and need a quick boost to finish the drive? Or what if I've just returned home, the car's charge is low, and I find myself needing to make an unexpected trip?

In the end, the only fair, sustainable solution will be for Tesla to charge Supercharging fees (and idle fees) that align with the true costs. Then they won't have to worry about coming up with complicated use policies that make gas stations seem simple by comparison. I understand that Tesla's current SC fees are well below the true costs, particularly in areas with hefty electrical demand fees, and that this has been helpful in building from scratch a market for long range BEVs.

It seems that Tesla's long term strategy, as evidenced by their plans for Megachargers for Tesla Semi, is to reduce those costs wherever possible by installing large solar arrays coupled with Powerpacks for energy storage. That's a capital intensive strategy, though, so one can envision the potential use of "charging infrastructure bonds" for financing, much like today's solar bonds.


doubt if its an issue. you know Tesla tracks everything you do. charge at a local station more than a few times a month, expect a problem. Your scenario suggests you will not have a problem.

Uber drivers and whatnot will be easy to detect. circling their neighborhood several times a day, several days in a row. They will stand out like a sore thumb.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 11,987 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 110.89 Ahr , SOH 96.00, Hx 115.22
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DaveinOlyWA
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Re: Tesla Supercharger Network

Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:23 pm

EVDRIVER wrote:
dgpcolorado wrote:
EVDRIVER wrote:They give enough free Kwh with a 3 for city people to not have to pay...
Do they? When the pay model for Supercharging was announced for the S and X it was to include 400 kWh per year free. Does that apply to the Model 3? I haven't seen anything one way or another but you are way closer to the Tesla folks than I am.

Even if the 400 kWh per year does apply to the Model 3, locals camping out at Superchargers will use that up pretty quickly and start having to pay. That ought to discourage them from using the Superchargers unless they don't have home or work charging available. If the 20¢/kWh in California is too low to discourage such charging by those who don't need it, perhaps the fee can be raised.

The problem with restrictions on the local use of Superchargers is that it prevents those who don't have home/work charging, including most renters and many condo/townhouse owners, from being able to drive a Tesla. A better solution is to increase the number of Supercharger Stations and stalls to reduce crowding, something Tesla has been attempting to do. The revenue from Model 3 charging ought to help with this.



Building enough SCs in cities like SF and surrounding areas is extremely costly and with an insane number of 3's that will be owned here is will be really bad. If they open every proposed SC this year in the bay area it's going to do nothing to reduce the load of the new cars. Few 3 owners will care less about $.20 a Kwh as it's a complete steal compared to gas and PGE rates here, it won't just be those with no charging it will be large numbers of people capitalizing on low cost SCs. Tesla will never open up enough SCs to solve this issue in these areas and I bet they will be crowded until very late hours. Most bay area SCs are used by locals primarily ask any attendant at some of the stations. Tesla certainly should limit local owners to specific SOC, this would be a HUGE benefit as so many people just top off wasting stall time for 10% SOC. I see this every time I am traveling from LA and up north trying to get a stall. The vast majority of SC charge users in this area are highly ignorant to EV charging and worse. It's not just tesla drivers as well are well aware. Tesla does a terrible job educating customers on charging in general for SC use.


Well it seems somewhat apparent that Tesla is getting some sort of deal on electricity rates. anyone have a clue as to what that might be? I have a heard a few wild conjectures but wondering if anyone has insight on this? I am guessing this is not something Tesla would be sharing
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 11,987 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 110.89 Ahr , SOH 96.00, Hx 115.22
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abasile
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Re: Tesla Supercharger Network

Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:18 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:doubt if its an issue. you know Tesla tracks everything you do. charge at a local station more than a few times a month, expect a problem. Your scenario suggests you will not have a problem.

Uber drivers and whatnot will be easy to detect. circling their neighborhood several times a day, several days in a row. They will stand out like a sore thumb.

You're right, of course. My point was that a blanket ban on the use of "local SCs would be going too far.

The only reason Tesla has to concern themselves with "policing" various patterns of SC use is that they're giving something away at below-market rates. I regard this as a necessary evil for now, as long as gasoline remains cheap and EV adoption remains limited. But the long term goal should definitely be to move to a market-based system that doesn't care what you're using the car for.

By the way, if Tesla ever does feel compelled to institute limitations on local Supercharging, this should be based on a drive energy (kWh) radius, not a miles/km radius. In other words, if you're less than, say, 6 kWh of home (typically 20 miles or so) then Tesla could take the position that you should think twice before Supercharging. I say this because Tesla plans to install Superchargers in Highland, CA which is only 16 miles from our home yet 4900' lower in elevation. It takes roughly 50 miles of rated range in our Model S to drive home from Highland. While our case represents an extreme, there are millions of people in the US who live 2000' or higher above nearby areas.
2011 LEAF at 71K miles, pre-owned 2012 Tesla S 85 at 98K miles
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GRA
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Re: Tesla Supercharger Network

Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:14 pm

EVDRIVER wrote:I don't know any one that pays $.15 on PGE especially with an EV except in fantasy land.

Yes, there seems to have been a considerable jump in the past few years. My utilities are included in my rent (I wish they weren't), so it's been a while since I had to pay a PG&E bill.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
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Re: Tesla Supercharger Network

Tue Dec 26, 2017 8:33 pm

Via IEVS, not exactly news to people who've been reading this thread:
Tesla Supercharger Expansion Goals Not Met For 2017
https://insideevs.com/tesla-supercharger-expansion-goals-short-2017/

. . . According to Electrek, the Silicon Valley electric car maker added some ~3,150 Superchargers across the globe throughout the year. The units reside in about 350 new station location. Opening the year, Tesla was owner to about 5,000 Superchargers at 770 locations, with a goal to make that number double. The goal will likely be hit very soon, but not quite yet.

Today, Tesla sits around the 8,250 mark for single Superchargers. Global stations have now reached 1,120. It’s pretty clear that doubling won’t happen, but with the automaker’s end-of-the-year push, we’ll see a number up over 60 percent growth. It all depends on how quickly Tesla can wrap up work on a number of locations that appear to be nearly complete. . . .

Tesla hopes to more than double the number of Superchargers once again for 2018, with a lofty goal of 18,000 by the close of the coming year.

"Ah, but if all of you in the audience who believe in fairies will clap your hands,"* Tesla will magically reach their goal this time!





*With thanks to Woody Allen's movie "What's Up, Tiger Lily," not to mention Peter Pan.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

scottf200
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Re: Tesla Supercharger Network

Mon Jan 01, 2018 7:03 pm

Dreadful :)
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sparky
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Re: Tesla Supercharger Network

Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:28 am

GRA wrote:Via IEVS, not exactly news to people who've been reading this thread:
Tesla Supercharger Expansion Goals Not Met For 2017
https://insideevs.com/tesla-supercharger-expansion-goals-short-2017/
...
Tesla hopes to more than double the number of Superchargers once again for 2018, with a lofty goal of 18,000 by the close of the coming year.

"Ah, but if all of you in the audience who believe in fairies will clap your hands,"* Tesla will magically reach their goal this time!


Speaking of magical thinking:
https://cleantechnica.com/2016/12/15/usa-gets-1st-non-tesla-high-power-ev-charging-station-evgo/
"LOS ANGELES – Dec. 15, 2016 – EVgo, operator of the nation’s largest network of public electric vehicle (EV) fast charging stations, today announced it has broken ground on the very first High-Power U.S. public charging station in Baker, California, home of the World’s Tallest Thermometer. EVgo is turning up the heat on EV charging with a station capable of charging at a rate of up to 350kW....
...EVgo expects the project to be completed by June 2017.
"

Nope. Maybe Feb 2018?
Not exactly news to people who bought a Bolt in 2017, thinking they might be able to actually drive it to Vegas before the New Year.

Throwing rocks is easy. Delivering useful stuff is hard. I hope EVgo gets this going soon. The EV community would benefit greatly if the other charge network operators missed goals the way Tesla does.

GRA
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Re: Tesla Supercharger Network

Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:02 pm

End of December and 2017 summary. 16 U.S. SCs opened last month, making 119 for the year and 459 total: Toledo, OH (12/4; I-75, density); Austin, TX (12/5; I-35 & U.S. 183/290, density); Mt. Jackson, VA (12/6; I-81 & S.R. 263, density); Laredo, TX (12/11; I-35 & 69W, expansion); Leominster, MA (12/13; S.R. 2, density); Gaithersburg, MD (12/13; I-270/370, density); Bellefonte, PA (12/14; I-80, density); Willcox, AZ (12/14; I-10, expansion); W. Melbourne, FL (12/14; I-95& U.S. 192, density); Greensboro, NC (12/16; I-40 & 73, density); Manchester, CT (12/19; I-84 & 291, density); Richmond, VA (12/19; I-64, density); Madison - E. Washington Ave., WI (12/19; I-90, 94 & U.S. 151, capacity); Oshkosh, WI (12/20; I-41 & S.R. 21, U.S. 45, density); Riverside, CA (12/28; urban); Cambridge, MA (12/29; urban).

In addition to the above, Yermo, Ca; Boston - South End; Lewes, DE and Vancouver, WA, have all been reported used, but remain unofficial and are included in the total below but listed here. The Mt. Shasta, CA SC is having its stalls increased by 16, but is not included in the total below.

37 U.S. SCs are known to be under construction: Lynwood, Issaquah; Fremont - Kato Rd., Fremont -Fremont Hub, Concord, Thousand Oaks, Cupertino, Sunnyvale, Lake Elsinore and San Felipe, CA; Phoenix, AZ; Poncha Springs, CO; Oak Creek, WI; Chicago - Wrigleyville and Skokie, IL; Muskegon, Big Rapids, Gaylord, Auburn Hills and Livonia, MI; Orlando - Universal Blvd. and Miami - Brickell City Centre, FL; Beckley and Huntington, WV; Raleigh, NC; Woodbridge and Jersey City NJ; Danbury CT; Clinton Corners, Yonkers and New Rochelle, NY; Hadley and Framingham, MA.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
8 Canadian SC opened last month: Tsawassen, BC; Barrie - Bayfield Street, Sudbury, and Concord ON; Baie St. Paul, Mt. Tremblant, Mascouche and Laval, QC making 39 total.

6 Canadian SCs are known to be under construction: Owen Sound, Markham, Pickering, Etobicoke, Hamilton and Casselman, ON.


Summing up the year, Tesla claimed they would double the number of North American SCs this year. They started with 363 (340 in the U.S. and 23 in Canada), and added 119 in the U.S., 16 in Canada and 6 in Mexico, for a total of 141, below even my estimate of 150 just for the U.S. They'd usually managed to complete 60-70% of the total they'd announced in the past, so this represents a new low in performance for them, just 38.8%. For the U.S. alone it's even worse, just 35%.

And now, as I mentioned a few months back, having finished out the year I'm no longer going to bother doing these monthly updates, as each additional SC makes less of a difference. I'll probably continue to mention any that I think are significant, i.e. those that expand coverage to new areas or complete major routes.
Last edited by GRA on Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:43 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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