GRA
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Re: Tesla Supercharger Network

Sat Aug 04, 2018 4:53 pm

WetEV wrote:
GRA wrote:
jlv wrote:I keep seeing "best is the enemy of good enough" and really think that applies here.

I posted because it's not yet good enough,


Not good enough for you, perhaps. You are not the average person.

Which is exactly what I said, that it wasn't good enough for people like me who traveled to remote areas off the interstates, and who parked their cars in places with no access to charging (or electricity FTM).

WetEV wrote:Remember my neighbors in suburban Boston, the longest trip they ever took by car was to Springfield? That's Springfield, MA and not some other state's Springfield. They had flown to Hawaii, Florida, Europe, ....

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Springf ... orough,+MA

With a Bolt or a 2018 Leaf with a 60kWh battery, this trip and every other trip they take could be charge at home only. No public charging needed. The average is probably between them and you.

WetEV wrote:You are not average, and they are not average. To sell 1%, 2%, 4%, 8%, 16%, 32%, or 64% of vehicles as BEVs, BEVs don't need to meet your needs. They need to meet the needs of the people buying them. Which doesn't include you, we get that.

You do? Glad to hear it, because you and others keep trying to tell me that I must own a BEV to understand its advantages. My point throughout, and the point you have consistently (until now, at least) refused to acknowledge, is that I do understand their advantages and disadvantages, have evaluated my car needs, have compared the capabilities that BEVs currently provide to those needs, and have determined based on practical and financial grounds that they are a poor fit for people like me at this time.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

WetEV
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Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
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Re: Tesla Supercharger Network

Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:08 pm

GRA wrote:My point throughout, and the point you have consistently (until now, at least) refused to acknowledge, is that I do understand their advantages and disadvantages, have evaluated my car needs, have compared the capabilities that BEVs currently provide to those needs, and have determined based on practical and financial grounds that they are a poor fit for people like me at this time.


And you make a point of consistently pointing the disadvantages of BEVs.

I have a modest suggestion for you.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red

DaveinOlyWA
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Re: Tesla Supercharger Network

Sun Aug 05, 2018 6:31 am

GRA wrote:My point throughout, and the point you have consistently (until now, at least) refused to acknowledge, is that I do understand their advantages and disadvantages, have evaluated my car needs, have compared the capabilities that BEVs currently provide to those needs, and have determined based on practical and financial grounds that they are a poor fit for people like me at this time.


So what do you drive? Because its all about need... so lets start with your need?
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 11,987 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 110.89 Ahr , SOH 96.00, Hx 115.22
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

GRA
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Re: Tesla Supercharger Network

Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:33 am

WetEV wrote:
GRA wrote:My point throughout, and the point you have consistently (until now, at least) refused to acknowledge, is that I do understand their advantages and disadvantages, have evaluated my car needs, have compared the capabilities that BEVs currently provide to those needs, and have determined based on practical and financial grounds that they are a poor fit for people like me at this time.


And you make a point of consistently pointing the disadvantages of BEVs.

I have a modest suggestion for you.

I make a point of pointing out where specific technologies work well and where they don't. Feel free to make any suggestions you like, just as I do.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 9215
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Tesla Supercharger Network

Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:01 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
GRA wrote:My point throughout, and the point you have consistently (until now, at least) refused to acknowledge, is that I do understand their advantages and disadvantages, have evaluated my car needs, have compared the capabilities that BEVs currently provide to those needs, and have determined based on practical and financial grounds that they are a poor fit for people like me at this time.


So what do you drive? Because its all about need... so lets start with your need?

I drive a 2003 Subaru Forester 2.5XS (bought new) which replaced my '88 Subaru Turbo 4WD Wagon (also bought new) when that was stolen. I have no brand loyalty, it's just when I've winnowed down the possible choices I started with (IIRR, 15 or so in 2003, but only 3 in 1988), specific Subarus have come closest to meeting my requirements the last two times I bought cars. Which isn't all that surprising, as I fit their 'active outdoors' customer demographic to a T, and owing to their rallye heritage they also meet my performance/driving dynamic requirements.

As to need, I need a car (now) primarily for road trips, as inexpensive a possible to buy (every 15 years or so the price of the car that best meets my needs seems to increase about $10k, so my next car should go out the door for no more than $35k), which has to be reliable for the long term (at least 15 years), inexpensive to maintain, achieve high safety ratings (IIHS/NHTSA) with as many of the latest safety features as are available without jacking the price too much or adding too many unneeded and unwanted gimmicks (like HVAC control touch screens and Falcon Wing doors etc.), good ergonomics and intuitive controls that allow me to keep my eyes and brain on the road, adequate acceleration to safely pass on two-lane mountain roads at density altitudes up to 12,000 ft. or so, a range of at least 4 hours (my current Subie does 5 or 6) at freeway speeds under all but the worst conditions, plus a reserve sufficient to get me to the next refueling/recharging station (but not less than 30 miles) under the same conditions and more if I stretch it, the best gas mileage possible while meeting other requirements, and a spare tire (full size preferred) and jack to cope with flats miles from the nearest paved road, and highly preferred that it stores in its own dedicated space and doesn't take up cargo volume. For an ICE I also insist on a manual transmission, but for a BEV/PHEV/FCEV I'd want several levels of regen from zero to lots, preferably on paddles, and a multi-speed automatic rather than a CVT is also preferred.

Among major wants are good driving dynamics (especially handling and steering feel), AWD so I don''t have to put chains on in the winter when I go on ski trips except when I really need them (owing to California's method of imposing chain restrictions, this is a major convenience issue), the flexible utility over the long term to meet my evolving needs provided by either a small CUV, wagon or squared-off hatch (e.g. VW Golf, Subaru Impreza) body style so that I can carry a large variety of people and/or outdoor equipment in/on it, including carrying a single bike inside or be able to sleep in it stretched out flat with the rear seats folded down, plus can carry roof racks for bikes and kayaks (and hang gliders should I get into that).
Last edited by GRA on Tue Aug 07, 2018 2:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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EVDRIVER
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Re: Tesla Supercharger Network

Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:51 pm

GRA wrote:
WetEV wrote:
GRA wrote:My point throughout, and the point you have consistently (until now, at least) refused to acknowledge, is that I do understand their advantages and disadvantages, have evaluated my car needs, have compared the capabilities that BEVs currently provide to those needs, and have determined based on practical and financial grounds that they are a poor fit for people like me at this time.


And you make a point of consistently pointing the disadvantages of BEVs.

I have a modest suggestion for you.

I make a point of pointing out where specific technologies work well and where they don't. Feel free to make any suggestions you like, just as I do.


IMO the value of that depends on the relative differences vs nit picking. In this case it seems pretty nit picky at best.

GRA
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Re: Tesla Supercharger Network

Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:56 pm

EVDRIVER wrote:
GRA wrote:
WetEV wrote:
And you make a point of consistently pointing the disadvantages of BEVs.

I have a modest suggestion for you.

I make a point of pointing out where specific technologies work well and where they don't. Feel free to make any suggestions you like, just as I do.


IMO the value of that depends on the relative differences vs nit picking. In this case it seems pretty nit picky at best.

You are entitled to your opinion just as much as I'm entitled to mine. I'm a fan of the widest possible range of views being expressed, so that every person can decide for themselves which ones they find most persuasive.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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EVDRIVER
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Re: Tesla Supercharger Network

Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:10 pm

It's like saying I don't like one flavor of ice cream so the entire brand is flawed. I see no value in it. If you were pointing out the HUGE issues with DC fast charging it would make more sense comparatively and in perspective. What's your opinion on EVGO advertising 50Kw charging and providing as little as 30kw with no good reason yet charging per minute? Seems like a scam since you don't get what you pay for. Another topic for another thread I suppose.......

GRA
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Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
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Re: Tesla Supercharger Network

Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:21 pm

EVDRIVER wrote:It's like saying I don't like one flavor of ice cream so the entire brand is flawed. I see no value in it. If you were pointing out the HUGE issues with DC fast charging it would make more sense comparatively and in perspective. What's your opinion on EVGO advertising 50Kw charging and providing as little as 30kw with no good reason yet charging per minute? Seems like a scam since you don't get what you pay for. Another topic for another thread I suppose.......

You ought to check what I've written about Blink. I've had my share of comments re eVgo as well, especially before they revised their pricing. I devote more attention to Tesla's SC network because they've promised the most, done the most and also fallen short the most. The tag line in my original sig read "When nurturing a new technology, under-promise and over-deliver rather than the opposite". Tesla's continual violation of that policy, which I regard as vital as well as basic business ethics (at least it was for me designing and selling AE) is why I pound on them so much. If they'd stop promising the moon and instead put out conservative schedules that they routinely achieve and usually exceed, they'd get zero criticism and lots of praise from me on that score. Instead, we get idiocies like I-94 which may well be put back another year and promised for 2019, just as it was previously promised for 2015, 2016, 2017 and 2018.

IM oft-stated opinion, until they've got a contract with the property owner, permits granted and construction contract awarded with project start date known, i.e. the project is shovel-ready, they simply shouldn't be listing any SC as 'Coming soon' or putting them on the SC map.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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EVDRIVER
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Re: Tesla Supercharger Network

Tue Aug 07, 2018 2:02 pm

I think coming soon is a general city location and not a specific site in some cases so any delays or changes are clearly not predictable. On the flip side people want to know where stations are being targeting and in the works. On the flip side there are some SC stations not listed on the map I know are being developed which indicates those are likely replacements for the other locations nearby. In relative terms I think they have done well based on the many obstacles to build high-power stations in single locations. In fact, it's quite remarkable. As a report card for delivering as promised based on other auto makers and network promises it is an A in comparison to a D- or F. Relative terms I can't see any reason to complain.

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