GRA
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Re: Tesla Supercharger Network

Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:55 pm

I'm all for faster charging, but the interesting thing over the long term will be seeing what happens to battery degradation rates.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

SageBrush
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Re: Tesla Supercharger Network

Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:01 pm

GRA wrote:I'm all for faster charging, but the interesting thing over the long term will be seeing what happens to battery degradation rates.

For the large majority that Supercharge perhaps 10% of their miles I doubt *any* effect will be noticed. Daily Supercharging will be a different story.
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Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
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11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
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scottf200
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Re: Tesla Supercharger Network

Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:50 pm

Elon said we slowed down the supercharger install a little in anticipation on v3 and now it will be spooled up. URL points to that part of the the Tesla Model Y presentation that mentioned it. (Lot of new (1-2yr) Tesla fans so he went thru history at beginning of Model Y pres).

https://youtu.be/Tb_Wn6K0uVs?t=1462

Image
100K EV miles and 80% EV usage
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GRA
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Re: Tesla Supercharger Network

Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:40 pm

scottf200 wrote:Elon said we slowed down the supercharger install a little in anticipation on v3 and now it will be spooled up. URL points to that part of the the Tesla Model Y presentation that mentioned it. (Lot of new (1-2yr) Tesla fans so he went thru history at beginning of Model Y pres).

https://youtu.be/Tb_Wn6K0uVs?t=1462

Image

"A little". Let's see, 10k stalls worldwide by the end of 2017, as claimed in March? of that year; actual total per supercharge.info on 12/30/17, 8,352. 18k stalls by the end of 2018, as claimed in Feb? of that year; actual total on 12/30/18, 11,854, a shortfall of 6,146. One wonders how far they'd have to miss their claims by to constitute "a lot".
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

SageBrush
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Re: Tesla Supercharger Network

Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:27 pm

GRA wrote:"A little".

That is one of the interesting things about Tesla. They often miss their projections by a lot, yet they are a decade ahead of everybody else and the gap is widening by the day.

No doubt they slowed down deployment waiting for the V3 roll-out. If they speed up from here on out I am a happy camper with their decision. And to give some context to Tesla "slowing down," I'll mention that they are up to 12,888 stalls world-wide per the Tesla map today. Or using the supercharge.info tabulation, that works out to about a 42% expansion of the best network by FAR in a year. And now the ENTIRE network is getting an upgrade :D

And there is more: Tesla is pushing out an OTA firmware change that will improve the charge taper in my car.I expect to average 120 kW using the old network and 160 kW using V3.

Here is another context: Tesla increased its world-wide fleet by ~ 30% in 2018. Between the additional deployment of network, speed-up of the system, and improved charging characteristics of the 2170 cell fleet, network utilization will drop by ~ (1.42*1.1)/1.3 = 20%

Tesla rocks.
Last edited by SageBrush on Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

iPlug
Posts: 238
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Location: Rocklin, CA

Re: Tesla Supercharger Network

Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:53 pm

Looking forward to V3. Will shave a decent chunk of time off our ~1x yearly trip to L.A. in our pending Model 3 SR. Should line up better with biobreak and grab/go meal downtime.

Otherwise, don’t think we’ll need to use it much, but peace of mind knowing it’s there.
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DaveinOlyWA
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Re: Tesla Supercharger Network

Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:19 pm

Hearing a bunch of claims that Tesla will double plug count in 2019. Guessing its the V3 build out that is driving it.
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scottf200
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Re: Tesla Supercharger Network

Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:46 pm

iPlug wrote:Looking forward to V3. Will shave a decent chunk of time off our ~1x yearly trip to L.A. in our pending Model 3 SR. Should line up better with biobreak and grab/go meal downtime.

Otherwise, don’t think we’ll need to use it much, but peace of mind knowing it’s there.

Related charts:
Avg time spent charging (kW)
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Time
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Power (kW)
Image
100K EV miles and 80% EV usage
'17 Tesla Model X 100D 'used' self | RIP '16 P90DL Sig self |
'18 Tesla Model 3 LR kid1 |
'11 Volt kid2 | '16 Volt for wife | '12 Volt kid1's spouse

SageBrush
Posts: 3469
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Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Tesla Supercharger Network

Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:13 am

I find this chart to be the most useful

Image

But it should not be taken to imply that most stops will charge up to 90% SoC. The Supercharger network is spaced to let people leave at a much lower SoC (dependent on model) to reach the next charge. E.g., I figure I will leave most stations with ~ 60 - 70% SoC and arrive at the next one with ~ 10% SoC. That then works out to stops of 15-20 minutes.

As an aside, the V2 curve is wrong. The charge rate does not have a sharp increase after 30% SoC
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

scottf200
Posts: 1838
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 9:21 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Feb 2011
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Contact: Website

Re: Tesla Supercharger Network

Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:47 am

SageBrush wrote:As an aside, the V2 curve is wrong. The charge rate does not have a sharp increase after 30% SoC
I wonder if that was sample v2 charging data points taken from a shares A/B pedestal charging session and it hit one of the switch overs (see below). Obviously, v3 SCs don't share A/B anymore.

Nice TMC user explanation:
The power cabinet has 12 charging units in four groups of three. The first car to plug in gets access to all four groups of chargers for a full speed charge of (soon to be) 144 kW. When a second car plugs in, the system takes one of those groups and gives it to the second car, for a charging speed of about 36 kW. The first car is now charging on three groups of chargers, for a max speed of about 108 kW. When the first car's charging rate drops below 72 kW, the system switches to two groups of chargers for each vehicle (about 72 kW each, the same as an Urban Supercharger). It isn't until the first car's charging rate drops below 36 kW that the system switches to one group for the first car and three groups for the second car.


I did a test between my X 100D and his LR 3 (75D) on an A/B pair. I collected date via TeslaFI.COM and merged (interwove) it. We were at 50 and 40 SOC at low 50F as you can see below.

We were getting a combined 135 kW (145 in future?) with those SOC and temps at Hickory NC site (120 kW max per). Hickory, NC Supercharger | Tesla

Image

I actually thought the chart I created was interesting and odd. I would have thought the LR Model 3 would have ramped up and the lines would have crisscrossed more dramatically HOWEVER I think the TM3 SOC was just too high at that point.

Image
100K EV miles and 80% EV usage
'17 Tesla Model X 100D 'used' self | RIP '16 P90DL Sig self |
'18 Tesla Model 3 LR kid1 |
'11 Volt kid2 | '16 Volt for wife | '12 Volt kid1's spouse

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