Suggest rent me a Nissan gasoline burner for longer trips

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jlsoaz

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 8, 2012
Messages
849
Location
Southern Arizona, USA
Essentially, I'd like to suggest that Nissan make it easier for me periodically to park my Leaf at a rental agency and efficiently (minimum of time and money) drive out with a Nissan rental, trusting that my Leaf would be parked for a few hours or days without any problems, and allowed Level I or II charging, as possible.

Such an arrangement would allow me to benefit in that:

- I could get rid of my gasoline burner that I own and have to tend to for maintenance and insurance.
- It would allow for "hybrid trips" (where I go, say, to the airport rental in my EV, and then continue on in a gasoline burner). Such trips would be slower than a pure gasoline trip, but would be much faster than a laborious lengthy multi-charging trip.
- I could perhaps use a highly efficient Nissan non-pluggable hybrid.
- If things are arranged in a smart way with Nissan, I might be able to avoid the recurring hassle and cost of rental-agency insurance and other issues, where they repeatedly scare me into buying more insurance. Since Nissan knows that I pay for insurance on my Leaf, this could be applied to my airport rental without the usual scare tactics, particularly if it's by mutually-agreed arrangement between Nissan and a rental agency.

This might benefit Nissan in that

- If the rental is a Nissan,
- it might help a few Leaf lessees and owners spend less on having to maintain a second car.
- it would increase the number of "Nissan miles" traveled by some of us.
- it might be a new and perhaps better, and efficient, way for some of us to deal with range issues on inter-city travel.

I guess this could all be done through Nissan dealerships instead of (say) airport-based rental agencies. There are pros and cons to this including a con that rental agencies may be better equipped efficiently to handle and process the needs of folks driving in at all hours and needing to do a quick car-swap. (I guess rather than battery swapping, this is about car-swapping).

This is a suggestion that I guess falls under the heading of "how Nissan could make more money from me". Nissan or this group may already have dealt with the topic and be ahead of me, but I searched for a few minutes in the group and don't see anything, so I am starting the topic. (A search on the word "rental" for example, seems to bring up threads pertaining to renting out of Nissan Leafs).

I'm not entirely sure how to frame this suggestion since it could be handled in other ways that have little to do with Nissan. For example, a different way to approach this idea might be to suggest it to Hertz or Avis or the like and say: "I suggest that you offer a special deal for EV drivers that if they pull into one of your agencies with their EV seeking a gasoline rental, you'll offer them a reasonable deal on a vehicle rental, not give them a raw deal on insurance and other hassles, and have their vehicle recharged and in a covered lot for them when they get back". I doubt they'd go for not giving EV drivers a raw deal on insurance and other rental costs, but overall maybe one or more of them might at least go for offering a formalized deal.

If this idea were to be taken up by rental agencies, then the focus I guess would shift away from renting Nissan gasoline-burners, though considering the demographic they might want to focus on offering highly-efficient gasoline burners (including Chevy Volt, Nissan and Toyota Hybrids, etc.) They could also offer I guess Nissan Leafs and other EVs for rent if a driver for their own reasons wanted to avoid waiting for a recharge and simply wanted to use the rental agency as an efficient EV car-swap for a longer trip. This seems a bit much as we are transitioning to more and more deployment of Quick-charge stations where the speed of quick-charging is better than the speed of going through a rental agency process, but many of us still have no access to quick-charging along our routes.

I'd be surprised if some Leaf drivers hadn't informally gone ahead and enacted this simply by using local rental agencies (perhaps talking to them about charging while away) or by arrangement with Nissan dealerships, but I'm suggesting that
A) Nissan might look into it
B) Rental agencies might look into formalizing it.
 
I don't know about your area, but many (most?) dealers here in California and perhaps elsewhere already have a program in which Leaf buyers got 10 free days' worth of car rentals from the dealership's own rental fleet of various Nissan models. I have yet to use mine, but several here have already used theirs.

Nissan currently does not have a "non-pluggable" hybrid, or any sort of hybrid, in the US. The Altima hybrid was discontinued when the current generation Altima was introduced.

As add-on insurance is a cash cow for rental agencies, I don't know if the pressure to buy the coverage will ever go away, even if Nissan has a mutual agreement program. It's no different than being asked to buy an extended warranty on some item you just bought. Most comp/collision policies are transferable to temporary rentals, but as usual check with your insurance company. Most credit cards also offer some form of insurance when you use their card to reserve and pay for the rental; most are excess (meaning whatever your insurance won't pay, such as deductibles) but a few including American Express offer additional primary coverage for an extra fee.
 
RonDawg said:
I don't know about your area, but many (most?) dealers here in California and perhaps elsewhere already have a program in which Leaf buyers got 10 free days' worth of car rentals from the dealership's own rental fleet of various Nissan models. I have yet to use mine, but several here have already used theirs.

Nissan currently does not have a "non-pluggable" hybrid, or any sort of hybrid, in the US. The Altima hybrid was discontinued when the current generation Altima was introduced.
Yeah, there was discussion about the One2One program at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=11160" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and in a few threads linked from there. I don't know its current status, validity depending on dealer, etc.

Yeah, Nissan currently doesn't currently sell a Nissan-branded hybrid in the US after they axed the NAH. There is currently the Infiniti M-hybrid (http://www.infinitiusa.com/m/hybrid/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;). I test drove it at Pebble Beach Concours.

Not sure if it's still being sold in Japan (and elsewhere?) as the Nissan Fuga Hybrid. I first saw it at Tokyo Motor Show in 09.
 
cwerdna said:
RonDawg said:
I don't know about your area, but many (most?) dealers here in California and perhaps elsewhere already have a program in which Leaf buyers got 10 free days' worth of car rentals from the dealership's own rental fleet of various Nissan models. I have yet to use mine, but several here have already used theirs.

Nissan currently does not have a "non-pluggable" hybrid, or any sort of hybrid, in the US. The Altima hybrid was discontinued when the current generation Altima was introduced.
Yeah, there was discussion about the One2One program at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=11160" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and in a few threads linked from there. I don't know its current status, validity depending on dealer, etc.

Yeah, Nissan currently doesn't currently sell a Nissan-branded hybrid in the US after they axed the NAH. There is currently the Infiniti M-hybrid (http://www.infinitiusa.com/m/hybrid/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;). I test drove it at Pebble Beach Concours.

Not sure if it's still being sold in Japan (and elsewhere?) as the Nissan Fuga Hybrid. I first saw it at Tokyo Motor Show in 09.

Thanks for the responses, will read more about this one2one program later, sounds indeed like Nissan is well ahead of me on that. Ironically, it's hard for me to make use of it efficiently since getting to my dealer requires at least one public charge, but my Nissan dealer has a Ford dealer affiliate near me, so maybe some sort of deal could be struck and I can finally get rid of the gasoline burner I own.

With respect to the Altima Hybrid and other Nissan hybrids, I think non-pluggable hybrids (and perhaps pluggable hybrids?) are part of Nissan's focus going forward. Just a quick google indicates that another Altima HEV is or was planned:

http://editorial.autos.msn.com/blogs/autosblogpost.aspx?post=2be201c4-b1fb-4b51-8b33-298e25fec6cd
Nissan to sell 15 hybrids by 2016; Altima Hybrid likely to return
By Exhaust Notes Dec 13, 2012 3:17PM

http://www.popularmechanics.com/car...014-nissan-altima-hybrid-tech-preview-6602143
November 29, 2011 2:00 PM
2014 Nissan Altima Hybrid Tech Preview
The Nissan Altima is getting an overhaul for 2013, and something else for 2014: a hybrid model featuring an all-new Nissan powertrain. We got a first look at the new tech in Tokyo.
By Ben Stewart

With respect to the raw deals accorded us in various aspects of vehicle insurance, including rental-related insurance purchases, I stand by my suggestion. If Nissan and a national rental agency discuss this hard topic, maybe they could tackle it rather than leaving us to get a raw deal. However, if this all goes back to a variant of the one2one program, then maybe that pretty much satisfies the whole matter. I'll have to read more to better understand if going through a dealership helps address the insurance question.
 
cwerdna said:
Yeah, there was discussion about the One2One program at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=11160" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and in a few threads linked from there. I don't know its current status, validity depending on dealer, etc.

Yeah, Nissan currently doesn't currently sell a Nissan-branded hybrid in the US after they axed the NAH. There is currently the Infiniti M-hybrid (http://www.infinitiusa.com/m/hybrid/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;). I test drove it at Pebble Beach Concours.

Not sure if it's still being sold in Japan (and elsewhere?) as the Nissan Fuga Hybrid. I first saw it at Tokyo Motor Show in 09.

I never realized that Infiniti had a hybrid car. I don't think you'll see too many of those in rental fleets though.
 
jlsoaz said:
With respect to the raw deals accorded us in various aspects of vehicle insurance, including rental-related insurance purchases, I stand by my suggestion. If Nissan and a national rental agency discuss this hard topic, maybe they could tackle it rather than leaving us to get a raw deal.

I don't think what you're asking for is possible. I've never tried to rent a car through a Nissan dealership so I don't know how they handle it, but I don't think an agreement between Nissan and a rental car agency is ever going to address the latter pushing you to buy the added insurance. As I said before, those things are cash cows for the rental car agency, and whatever added business Nissan is going to steer their way probably isn't going to offset the loss of that revenue.

Plus there are people who have a legitimate need for that insurance. People who normally drive a beater and only carry their state's minimum liability insurance, for example. Or foreign tourists whose insurance doesn't cover them here in the US. Or businesspeople who don't want to worry about whose insurance will pay for any damage and whose companies are paying for it anyway so what do they care?

Nissan and the dealership can't address the insurance question because it's not for them to address, short of including it on every rental which will just drive the price up for everybody. Whether or not your primary insurance covers you is up to the company that wrote your policy. Whether or not your credit card issuer covers you is up to them as well.

I've rented numerous cars over the years, and the only company that I use that even remotely gives me a hard sell on the add-on insurance is Enterprise. When asked I politely tell them I am declining the insurance and initial where necessary. I am a Hertz Gold member and my profile with them automatically declines the insurance.
 
RonDawg said:
jlsoaz said:
With respect to the raw deals accorded us in various aspects of vehicle insurance, including rental-related insurance purchases, I stand by my suggestion. If Nissan and a national rental agency discuss this hard topic, maybe they could tackle it rather than leaving us to get a raw deal.

I don't think what you're asking for is possible. I've never tried to rent a car through a Nissan dealership so I don't know how they handle it, but I don't think an agreement between Nissan and a rental car agency is ever going to address the latter pushing you to buy the added insurance. As I said before, those things are cash cows for the rental car agency, and whatever added business Nissan is going to steer their way probably isn't going to offset the loss of that revenue.

Plus there are people who have a legitimate need for that insurance. People who normally drive a beater and only carry their state's minimum liability insurance, for example. Or foreign tourists whose insurance doesn't cover them here in the US. Or businesspeople who don't want to worry about whose insurance will pay for any damage and whose companies are paying for it anyway so what do they care?
[....]

Hi Ron:
The examples you cite all are not to the point of any potential program specific to Leaf drivers, particularly Leaf lessees. As far as I know (could be wrong) in the case of all Leaf lessees, all such vehicles are owned by NMAC (i.e.: Nissan) and they all are guaranteed to have a robust amount of insurance. So, the conversation [between agency and driver] about rental agency suggested added insurance needn't take place, or at least not as much as usual (except I suppose under unusual circumstances, such as renting a Porsche).
 
The examples you cite all are not to the point of any potential program specific to Leaf drivers, particularly Leaf lessees. As far as I know (could be wrong) in the case of all Leaf lessees, all such vehicles are owned by NMAC (i.e.: Nissan) and they all are guaranteed to have a robust amount of insurance. So, the conversation [between agency and driver] about rental agency suggested added insurance needn't take place, or at least not as much as usual (except I suppose under unusual circumstances, such as renting a Porsche).

I suspect most Leafs leases are with NMAC, but that is mostly due to the the $7500 Federal tax break which (I have been told here) would not apply with other lessors. But that isn't necessarily the case with any other car.

Even if you have your insurance company's most expensive insurance, there is no guarantee that it is transferable to any other car. Most will, but not all; I've come across a few that specifically cover you only for the car(s) listed on the policy in regards to comp/collision. That's why Nissan just can't say "Just assume this Leaf owner/lessee has good insurance that will cover rental cars" because that is not guaranteed.

When I signed my lease agreement, I only promised to have sufficient insurance to cover any comprehensive and collision losses for the car, with a maximum $1000 deductible. It said nothing about the transferability of said coverage to other vehicles, in particular rentals.
 
RonDawg said:
The examples you cite all are not to the point of any potential program specific to Leaf drivers, particularly Leaf lessees. As far as I know (could be wrong) in the case of all Leaf lessees, all such vehicles are owned by NMAC (i.e.: Nissan) and they all are guaranteed to have a robust amount of insurance. So, the conversation [between agency and driver] about rental agency suggested added insurance needn't take place, or at least not as much as usual (except I suppose under unusual circumstances, such as renting a Porsche).

I suspect most Leafs leases are with NMAC, but that is mostly due to the the $7500 Federal tax break which (I have been told here) would not apply with other lessors.

That doesn't sound exactly right (as to the tax break not applying for other lessors) but I'll keep an open mind, I've never been entirely sure of how that break works for all of the entities leasing out the new vehicles.

RonDawg said:
But that isn't necessarily the case with any other car.

Even if you have your insurance company's most expensive insurance, there is no guarantee that it is transferable to any other car. Most will, but not all; I've come across a few that specifically cover you only for the car(s) listed on the policy in regards to comp/collision. That's why Nissan just can't say "Just assume this Leaf owner/lessee has good insurance that will cover rental cars" because that is not guaranteed.

When I signed my lease agreement, I only promised to have sufficient insurance to cover any comprehensive and collision losses for the car, with a maximum $1000 deductible. It said nothing about the transferability of said coverage to other vehicles, in particular rentals.

I see, thanks for the information.
 
jlsoaz said:
That doesn't sound exactly right (as to the tax break not applying for other lessors) but I'll keep an open mind, I've never been entirely sure of how that break works for all of the entities leasing out the new vehicles.

Two senior posters have advised me of this, but Edmunds.com has this to say:

If a vehicle is being leased, the credit stays with the leasing company, which is the actual owner of the car or truck. In most cases, however, the tax credit has been factored into the cost of the lease, so the customer still benefits. Lease programs for the Chevrolet Volt and Nissan Leaf, for instance, include the $7,500 as a credit toward the down payment.

Source: http://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/the-ins-and-outs-of-electric-vehicle-tax-credits.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Nissan and GM, through their respective financing companies, have elected to pass all of the $7500 credit to the consumer. But not all lessors do, and IIRC Toyota does not do so for the RAV-4 EV for example.
 
RonDawg said:
jlsoaz said:
That doesn't sound exactly right (as to the tax break not applying for other lessors) but I'll keep an open mind, I've never been entirely sure of how that break works for all of the entities leasing out the new vehicles.

Two senior posters have advised me of this, but Edmunds.com has this to say:

If a vehicle is being leased, the credit stays with the leasing company, which is the actual owner of the car or truck. In most cases, however, the tax credit has been factored into the cost of the lease, so the customer still benefits. Lease programs for the Chevrolet Volt and Nissan Leaf, for instance, include the $7,500 as a credit toward the down payment.

Source: http://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/the-ins-and-outs-of-electric-vehicle-tax-credits.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Nissan and GM, through their respective financing companies, have elected to pass all of the $7500 credit to the consumer. But not all lessors do, and IIRC Toyota does not do so for the RAV-4 EV for example.

Thanks Ron. What I was responding to was your statement:

RonDawg said:
I suspect most Leafs leases are with NMAC, but that is mostly due to the the $7500 Federal tax break which (I have been told here) would not apply with other lessors.

As far as I know (and of course I could be wrong), all lessors get the credit.

As to the separate question of what portion of it they pass along, that is difficult to assess in an exact way, but I agree that not all lessors pass the full amount along (nor should we expect they all would). In fact, neither Nissan nor GM seemed to pass much (if any) along when they first started selling and leasing their vehicles, but (in my view) as time passed and they realized the vehicles weren't going to fly out the door, they realized (I think) that they had to put aside their inclinations to charge according to the notional MSRP that had the government money built into it, and instead provide good, and much more realistic, leasing terms.
 
You are better off just using one of the rental car companies instead of having to deal with a dealer managing anything. Most rental companies will let you park your car for as long as you want while you drive away in your rental. If you are suggesting that Nissan should pay for 10 days rental a year for you then I wish you good luck with that! :lol:
 
Elephanthead said:
You are better off just using one of the rental car companies instead of having to deal with a dealer managing anything. Most rental companies will let you park your car for as long as you want while you drive away in your rental. If you are suggesting that Nissan should pay for 10 days rental a year for you then I wish you good luck with that! :lol:

Hi Elephanthead - I'm not sure what gave you the idea that I was suggesting that Nissan should pay for 10 days of rental a year for me. I'm quite happy to pay for a rental if I need it, but if it's going to be something that I do a lot (such as if I am going to ditch my ownership of a hydrocarbon-powered vehicle) then it would help if Nissan could help me secure some sort of discount over time. If my commitment is to renting Nissan vehicles, then that is something in it for them.

It turns out that Nissan has had an incentive program going (due to expire March 31) called the "Go The Distance" program where a Nissan Leaf purchaser or lessee would have the right to 10 free days of rental (not per year) from certain Leaf dealers. It's not something I qualify for, I'm not upset about it, and hopefully it won't serve as too much of a distraction from my suggestion(s) which are somewhat in-line with that program. However, I am not suggesting some overly generous rental program, only perhaps some moderate discount program for Leaf drivers who are frequent renters in lieu of owning a separate ICV.

I think there are pros and cons as to going through a rental agency to swap my Leaf out for awhile for another vehicle. In my particular case, since the dealership is about 4-5 hours away by Leaf, including recharge time, I'd be much more inclined to stop at the airport (1 hour by Leaf) and I also think there are other reasons to want to go through a rental agency, such as their hours of operation in some locations and experience in the business.

I think my suggestion stems from mulling over the plight or situation of those who simply have to have a longer range vehicle for some purposes. In those cases, depending on the frequency of the need, we can either retain ownership of a second vehicle, lease or buy a second vehicle from Nissan (a separate idea they might consider), rent a vehicle at those times, or perhaps there are other possibilities. Looking at this from Nissan's point of view, they are not a charity, but do have an interest in helping their Leaf customers to overcome this hurdle of needing longer range sometimes. I think they showed that they recognize this issue in their Go The Distance program. I'm not sure the exact terms of the program are critical to repeat, I am mentioning it because it helps show they are aware of the issue.
 
jlsoaz said:
As to the separate question of what portion of it they pass along, that is difficult to assess in an exact way, but I agree that not all lessors pass the full amount along (nor should we expect they all would). In fact, neither Nissan nor GM seemed to pass much (if any) along when they first started selling and leasing their vehicles, but (in my view) as time passed and they realized the vehicles weren't going to fly out the door, they realized (I think) that they had to put aside their inclinations to charge according to the notional MSRP that had the government money built into it, and instead provide good, and much more realistic, leasing terms.

I'm not sure they can legally NOT pass it along. The residual value of a Leaf reflects the credit because that's what a Leaf is worth -- the MSRP, minus the credit, depreciated in the usual manner. Try selling a Leaf and asking for more than that amount by saying "I didn't get the credit." That's not going to go very far.
 
Here's a good example of what I think Nissan might consider doing. Some Leaf drivers (hard to say how many) might this this useful, and in some cases, money-saving.

http://www.slashgear.com/california-exclusive-2013-fiat-500e-is-priced-at-32500-14277774/
California-exclusive 2013 Fiat 500e is priced at $32,500
Brian Sin, Apr 14th 2013

...Fiat will offer its customers the “Fiat 500e Pass Program”, which allows 500e owners to choose an alternative car to use for up to 12 days each year. The owners will be able to choose from select cars offered by Enterprise Holdings, including the Fiat 500s, the Dodge Dart, the Chrysler 200, or bigger vehicles like a minivan or a pickup truck. The Fiat 500e Pass Program is only available for the first 3 years after you purchase your 500e....
 
They should simply do what Fiat has offered -- buy an EV, and Nissan will give you X days of free rentals per year from Nissan rental cars (they do have a US dealer-based rental service like Toyota, Ford and other manufacturers).

That would definitely take some of the anxiety about long trips out of EV ownership and should help Leaf sales.
 
hyperlexis said:
They should simply do what Fiat has offered -- buy an EV, and Nissan will give you X days of free rentals per year from Nissan rental cars (they do have a US dealer-based rental service like Toyota, Ford and other manufacturers).

That would definitely take some of the anxiety about long trips out of EV ownership and should help Leaf sales.

I also think they should make something along the lines of this offer. They actually did have a little known program along these lines for Leaf purchases (made prior to March 31 2013?), but apparently I don't have access to it (my dealer doesn't rent Nissans). Other people here however have benefited, which is great to see. Did they continue the program?

When the analysis is done over many drivers, I wonder as to the extent of the potential of such a program to benefit drivers. In my case, I think maybe it would save me a lot of money, and make my Leaf ownership better. It might even reduce my inclination to consider a PHEV lease or purchase when my Leaf lease is up in 2016. Were I to have convenient and genuinely affordable access to a rented well-maintained gasoline burner, I could gladly sell my gasoline burner and save myself money (maintenance, insurance on a car I seldom use, registration, the spot in my garage, etc.). Maybe I could get access already, and maybe it would be more affordable than I realize, but it seems like every time I rent a car (not often) I end up spending around $110 per day or more on it (including everything, such as insurance, taxes, fees, gasoline, etc.). If Nissan could help me get this down to $50 per day for 10 or 20 or 30 or 40 days per year, that would help me consider the rental and getting rid of the gasoline burner.
 
this is something that Nissan is investigating at the corporate level. the various local programs were very well received but inconsistent in their application even within the same geographical area.

there is a bit of a logistical challenge to find a rental agency that can guarantee availability all the time (during slack times its easy. 3 day holiday weekends, not so much) nationwide.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
this is something that Nissan is investigating at the corporate level. the various local programs were very well received but inconsistent in their application even within the same geographical area.

there is a bit of a logistical challenge to find a rental agency that can guarantee availability all the time (during slack times its easy. 3 day holiday weekends, not so much) nationwide.

Thanks Dave, really good to have this information.

Just for my situation, I hope they move on this sooner rather than later. I will probably not want to wait for three more years of my lease to do something about my gasoline burner (heck, part of it is that it's hard to drive a good new car like a Leaf and then be satisfied stepping into a 16 year old car).

Also (again, just for my own expression of what I want): I don't at all need or expect free rentals, but I would like a substantial break on total rental costs, especially if I need to rent a lot. All of this would help me cut the cord on owning a gasoline-burner and it would potentially be win-win for Nissan in that I could then be driving and paying to drive a Nissan gasoline-burner some days out of the year.
 
jlsoaz: Are there other EVs in your neighborhood/vicinity? If so, find other EV owners to share the use and cost of an ICE for longer trips. Form an LLC or nonprofit to buy/own the designated ICE. Split the cost of ownership (insurance, title and registration) with your small group of users. One ICE (instead of 2-4) sits around until someone amongst your group needs to use it.
 
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