BestPal
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Location: San Diego, CA

Re: Pls give us START time in "charging timer" - 2013 Leaf S

Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:48 pm

davewill wrote:
BestPal wrote:That's very presumptuous of you. Director of facilities at my company offered L1 charging to me and suggested to use it to max and he wants an electric car and he is not happy that he didn't get a free L2 charger approved to be installed like some other companies have (6 of them at Pechanga casino). If anything we might push for a free L2 in the future and set another example for the companies to follow. What did you say I'm ruining? I couldn't quite hear you.
So? That just means you AND the Dir. of Facilities are taking advantage of the company. I'm glad you won't personally run into any problems, but it still seems pretty picayune to try and shave that tiny bit off your home charging.


That's your opinion Mr. Your're entitled to it. I sense some resentment maybe because you don't have such an option. Sorry. Hope your next employer treats you well.
_ _ _ _
2013 Leaf S with 6.6kW charger and DC
23,000+ miles driven
4.3 miles/kwh dash average
20% of driving is on So-Cal freeways 65-75mph

palmermd
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Leaf Number: 1100011011
Location: Hermosa Beach, CA

Re: Pls give us START time in "charging timer" - 2013 Leaf S

Fri Apr 12, 2013 4:01 pm

I agree it seems like a lot of work for a dime. Its only 2kWh your saving per day. It would be so easy to just put a mechanical timer on the EVSE at home and have it start at midnight. Then you don't have any timers on the car at all. This will simplify the charging at work too. You don't have to press the timer override button every day.
Last edited by palmermd on Fri Apr 12, 2013 4:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Michael

Leaf since 31 March 2011
Driving electric since 1996


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davewill
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Re: Pls give us START time in "charging timer" - 2013 Leaf S

Fri Apr 12, 2013 4:25 pm

BestPal wrote:That's your opinion Mr. Your're entitled to it. I sense some resentment maybe because you don't have such an option. Sorry. Hope your next employer treats you well.
My employer treats me very well, and I return the favor, thanks.
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2011 LEAF SL w/QC, Blue Ocean, returned at end of lease

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planet4ever
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Re: Pls give us START time in "charging timer" - 2013 Leaf S

Fri Apr 12, 2013 6:25 pm

BestPal wrote:HOW easy would it be to just do it all in 1 step: Set up your timer to "START at" 12am (your cheapest TOU start time) and Charge to 70% ????
Umm... Wouldn't it be just as easy to set your END time at 8:30 am (or the end of your TOU time if earlier) and your charge to 70%? Obviously what I am suggesting is that it isn't a START time you feel you need, because that alone would not let you do what you want. What you are really wishing for is a charge percentage. Yes, you did also mention that in your original post, but that isn't what the thread title asks for. I agree that it would be good to have a choice of charging percentage, and so do many others. That isn't available in any LEAF model from any year (to date).

BestPal wrote:All can be acheived with an easy software update. Thus my question to you is why don't you understand that we should have that in our ALREADY BUILT IN charging timers?
As dgpcolorado pointed out, this was not something that was arbitrarily removed from existing programming. It is something added to a totally different computer (the one that runs the dash) from the timer implementation in all other LEAF models and years (which is in the computer that runs the Nav and Carwings console). The timers in all models except the S are software/firmware timers implemented by that other computer. That computer is gone from your car, so the timers are gone as well.

Incidentally, while I have the floor, I haven't seen many charging efficiency numbers yet on the 2013, and they could be different from the 2011 and 2012. The 3.3kW charger could also be different from the 6kW charger. But in 2011 and 2012, the net efficiency from wall to battery was about 75% when running at 120v 12A, and about 85% at 240v 16A. The difference was not primarily in the charger itself but in the cooling system, which is stealing electricity from what is coming out of the charger, routing it through the DC/DC converter, and using it at 12v to drive the cooling pump and fan. That usage appears to be at a constant power, regardless of the length or rate of charge. Since a 120v charge takes much longer than a 240v charge, the overhead shows up as much higher when measured against energy transmitted to the battery. I'm not sure, but I think the charger itself was about 90% efficient and the other 5% or 15% was due to the cooling. (The EVSE uses a miniscule amount of power.) That would make sense because 120v 12A charging takes about three times as long as 240v 16A charging.

Ray
End of April 2013: Traded my 2011 SL for a 2013 S with charge pkg.

smkettner
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Re: Pls give us START time in "charging timer" - 2013 Leaf S

Fri Apr 12, 2013 9:32 pm

BestPal wrote:HOW easy would it be to just do it all in 1 step:

Set up your timer to "START at" 12am (your cheapest TOU start time) and Charge to 70% ????


How about use the end timer 1+ hour past the TOU stop and set to 80% Going to be close enough.
I understand it could be better. All you can do is learn to use it best you can.
1 bar lost at 21,451 miles, 16 months.
2 bar lost at 35,339 miles, 25 months.
LEAF traded at 45,400 miles for a RAV4-EV

tallgirl
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Re: Pls give us START time in "charging timer" - 2013 Leaf S

Sun Apr 14, 2013 2:40 pm

KJD wrote:The most efficient way to use the power grid is to charge at night when the load is light. Charging during the day just adds to the peak load on the grid. Not a good thing to do.


PV. I charge from the grid during the day when the sun is shining and I don't want to lose $0.033 on the buy / sell spread.

If the PoCo wants my electricity during peak demands, they can damned well pay me the spread.

tallgirl
Posts: 16
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Re: Pls give us START time in "charging timer" - 2013 Leaf S

Sun Apr 14, 2013 2:49 pm

First, to dispel a myth -- crippleware =does= save companies a significant amount of money in maintenance expense, especially when the "low cost" version of the software is the more common in the marketplace. I've been a software engineer for 34 years and I assure you, I could sell a stripped down version of the software with the basic features -- the ones that have been tested the most and for the longest period of time -- for far less than I can sell the latest and greatest with all the bells and whistles, if maintenance expense and development amortization is all that's figured in.

That said, for those of you who purchased a Leaf with crippleware, I'm sorry. You wanted to save some money, and that's the price you (don't) pay.

I'd love to have a fully WiFi enabled Leaf with integrated web interface I can use to enable and disable charging, complete with a positive control interface which turns off charging if the watchdog isn't reset every 10 or 15 minutes. For that matter, throw in a Modbus/TCP interface and I think I'd be in heaven. Oh, and I don't want to pay the $250K it would likely cost Nissan to add that feature. I want it added to my SV the next time I don't go in for an oil change.

Get a 20 amp industrial grade timer and use it.

I'm likely going to add a 20A2P 240 volt contactor connected to a ZigBee enabled SCADA box I manufacture, along with some 0-5V AC transducers on the subpanel feeder and charging receptacle conductors. My cost? Not a lot -- I'm a electrical system monitoring OEM :)

GregH
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Leaf Number: 26967
Location: Irvine, CA

Re: Pls give us START time in "charging timer" - 2013 Leaf S

Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:20 am

tallgirl wrote:First, to dispel a myth -- crippleware =does= save companies a significant amount of money in maintenance expense, especially when the "low cost" version of the software is the more common in the marketplace. I've been a software engineer for 34 years and I assure you, I could sell a stripped down version of the software with the basic features -- the ones that have been tested the most and for the longest period of time -- for far less than I can sell the latest and greatest with all the bells and whistles, if maintenance expense and development amortization is all that's figured in.


? eh?
How can writing a new stripped down version of the existing timer UI save money in maintenance expense? Even assuming the cost of creating this new sku was $0 (I'm sure it's not), it still has to be tested and verified... But even if that were free as well, how can supporting two versions of the software be cheaper than supporting one? Especially when that one is by far the most common and has been in use for two years already. I don't get it.
'17 blue Volt Premier w/ACC
'12 SL black Leaf
'11 SL blue Leaf
RAV4-EV 2002-2005
Gen1 & Gen2 EV1 1997-2003
PV 2.4Kw, 10kWh lithium battery SCE TOU-DA

kovalb
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Re: Pls give us START time in "charging timer" - 2013 Leaf S

Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:59 pm

tallgirl wrote: crippleware

Not crippleware. The base "S" grade LEAF uses a completely different interface than the SV or SL. It does not have a touch screen for inputting the settings. It must make due with the buttons which control the meter display. Additional development was done in order to add the timer function to the existing meter. To add both start and end functions, using an interface that was never intended to be used for complex settings, would have made it over complicated. Simpler is better.
Had six Nissan LEAFs in five years. Hope to get another.
Retired Nissan Employee (NTCNA-AZ). Opinions expressed here are my own.

GregH
Posts: 860
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:16 pm
Delivery Date: 13 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 26967
Location: Irvine, CA

Re: Pls give us START time in "charging timer" - 2013 Leaf S

Mon Apr 15, 2013 3:30 pm

kovalb wrote:
tallgirl wrote: crippleware

Not crippleware. The base "S" grade LEAF uses a completely different interface than the SV or SL. It does not have a touch screen for inputting the settings. It must make due with the buttons which control the meter display. Additional development was done in order to add the timer function to the existing meter. To add both start and end functions, using an interface that was never intended to be used for complex settings, would have made it over complicated. Simpler is better.


Aaaah.. ok, I get it now.
'17 blue Volt Premier w/ACC
'12 SL black Leaf
'11 SL blue Leaf
RAV4-EV 2002-2005
Gen1 & Gen2 EV1 1997-2003
PV 2.4Kw, 10kWh lithium battery SCE TOU-DA

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