Page 3 of 3

Re: 90% charge needed.

Posted: Tue May 15, 2018 6:52 pm
by cwerdna
borugee wrote:For electric cars EPA mileage should not be at the miles when the car is new, they should also publish expected miles when car is at 20k, 40k,60k..100k. Nissan will comply then.

Good idea, but at what climate? A '16 30 kWh Leaf in Phoenix will almost certainly be much worse off than one in Seattle at those mileages.

Re: 90% charge needed.

Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 8:24 pm
by borugee
cwerdna wrote:
borugee wrote:For electric cars EPA mileage should not be at the miles when the car is new, they should also publish expected miles when car is at 20k, 40k,60k..100k. Nissan will comply then.

Good idea, but at what climate? A '16 30 kWh Leaf in Phoenix will almost certainly be much worse off than one in Seattle at those mileages.

How about average for US (EPA is a US thing). AZ will be less life, than average, WA will be more life. Issue will be there is no way to measure, to publish.

Re: 90% charge needed.

Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 8:40 pm
by LeftieBiker
borugee wrote:
cwerdna wrote:
borugee wrote:For electric cars EPA mileage should not be at the miles when the car is new, they should also publish expected miles when car is at 20k, 40k,60k..100k. Nissan will comply then.

Good idea, but at what climate? A '16 30 kWh Leaf in Phoenix will almost certainly be much worse off than one in Seattle at those mileages.

How about average for US (EPA is a US thing). AZ will be less life, than average, WA will be more life. Issue will be there is no way to measure, to publish.


An average for the US would be meaningless, as we have a very wide range of climates.

Re: 90% charge needed.

Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 9:25 pm
by borugee
LeftieBiker wrote:
borugee wrote:
cwerdna wrote:Good idea, but at what climate? A '16 30 kWh Leaf in Phoenix will almost certainly be much worse off than one in Seattle at those mileages.

How about average for US (EPA is a US thing). AZ will be less life, than average, WA will be more life. Issue will be there is no way to measure, to publish.


An average for the US would be meaningless, as we have a very wide range of climates.


Yes I can agree to your point if you can suggest better way to educate the car buyer. Do you have a sugestion? Best I can come up is what I stated.

Point is EPA range when is meaning less when after 100k miles, one manufacturer car (Leaf) vs other manufacturer (Tesla) vs ICE give completely different picture. What you suggest to inform the car buyer?

After 100k Miles EPA Range will be at
Leaf 50%
Tesla at 85%
ICE 90%

Car buyer need to know this.

Re: 90% charge needed.

Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 9:26 pm
by borugee
borugee wrote:
LeftieBiker wrote:
borugee wrote:How about average for US (EPA is a US thing). AZ will be less life, than average, WA will be more life. Issue will be there is no way to measure, to publish.


An average for the US would be meaningless, as we have a very wide range of climates.


Yes I can agree to your point if you can suggest better way to educate the car buyer. Do you have a sugestion? Best I can come up is what I stated.

Point is EPA range when is meaning less when after 100k miles, one manufacturer car (Leaf) vs other manufacturer (Tesla) vs ICE give completely different picture. What you suggest to inform the car buyer?

As an example, after 100k Miles EPA Range will be at
Leaf 50%
Tesla at 85%
ICE 90%

My opinion is car buyer need to know this, and it is the job of the EPA to do so.

Re: 90% charge needed.

Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 10:44 pm
by cwerdna
borugee wrote:After 100k Miles EPA Range will be at
Leaf 50%
Tesla at 85%
ICE 90%

Car buyer need to know this.

Unfortunately, your proposed info will not be right for MANY folks. At 100K miles with the 4/2013+ to model year 2014 pack ("wolf pack" as Leftie calls it) and probably the "lizard" pack for someone in the mild Pacific NW or Portland, OR doing that within say 3-6 years, those folks will probably have 75 to 80%+ (wild guess based upon when I've seen folks in the PNW lose their bars) EPA range.

Someone in Phoenix w/the same number of miles and the same amount of time w/the "wolf pack" will probably have like 45% or less.

And, if it were the typical 12K miles/year, on the "wolf pack" I'd guess the PNW might have 70+% while the Phoenix person would have maybe 20-30%.

It's not the mileage only. It's a combination of calendar losses, climate and cycles.

Re: 90% charge needed.

Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 11:15 pm
by LeftieBiker
borugee wrote:
LeftieBiker wrote:
borugee wrote:How about average for US (EPA is a US thing). AZ will be less life, than average, WA will be more life. Issue will be there is no way to measure, to publish.


An average for the US would be meaningless, as we have a very wide range of climates.


Yes I can agree to your point if you can suggest better way to educate the car buyer. Do you have a sugestion? Best I can come up is what I stated.

Point is EPA range when is meaning less when after 100k miles, one manufacturer car (Leaf) vs other manufacturer (Tesla) vs ICE give completely different picture. What you suggest to inform the car buyer?

After 100k Miles EPA Range will be at
Leaf 50%
Tesla at 85%
ICE 90%

Car buyer need to know this.


I'd suggest three estimates: "Ideal conditions" (cool climate, low mileage), "Typical conditions" (Moderate climate, typical mileage) and "Severe conditions" (Hot climate, average to high mileage). Those pairs could also be swapped around, but then it would get complicated!