Work with Amtrak to do a WestCoast electric Autotrain...

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jsongster

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 3, 2013
Messages
197
Location
MTZ CA
A way to make better use of existing train services from Northern to Southern CA would be to equip the San Joaquin Amtrak California lines with some car carriers that could be loaded/unloaded at the northern and southern population centers and charges to 100% along the way as the trains already have 480 volt systems and the ride takes about 5 hours from SF to Bakersfield.

So you load your LEAF into the Nissan Sponsored "think differently" AutoTrain. Plug it into the onboard 240 volt EVSE. Walk into the Nissan Sponsored 'Quiet Car' emphasizing what LEAF drivers are used to. Ride to Bakersfield on Amtrak California's comfy trains with onboard meals and WiFi. Hop off the train in Bakersfield and into your fully charged 100% electric car and drive to Lebec's waiting CHAdeMO quick charger that refreshes the charge to get them fully over Tejon Pass and it's downhill regen all the way to Los Angeles.

Another route could be an AutoTrain add on to the Coast Starlight allowing folks all over the west coast to take their cars with them from LA Union Station to SF, Portland, Seattle and even to drive their car over the border to scenic Vancouver, B.C., Canada or on a car ferry to elegant Victoria.

Being able to drive fully charged electric cars off the train and to your hotel along the way would greatly enhance train touring. A great way to make range anxiety way less relevant.
 
Very interesting idea. I visit family in San Francisco many times a year in my ICE car. I'd love to take the coastal train and be able to drive my LEAF once there.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auto_Train" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

During fiscal year 2011, the Auto Train carried over 250,000 passengers, a 6.4% increase over FY2010. The train had a total revenue of US$68,618,768 in FY2011, an increase of 12.5% over FY2010. The Auto Train had the highest revenue of any long-distance train in the Amtrak system

It normally takes 2 hours to unload all vehicles from a full train
 
We have a port in Oakland where the San Joaquin and capitol corridor trains load... we also have busy ports for loading and unloading auto train cars in Benicia... I'm certain that some of the SoCal train stations could have a siding for unhooking the incoming cars and hooking up the preloaded outgoing ones.

Nissan sponsors the refitting of the car to add EVSE equipment and maybe even Solar on the roof of the auto train cars to ease the load on the trains electrical system. The whole thing turns on it's head range anxiety. And for long rides... trains are way more comfy than cars or flying. Get up walk around... have a meal... catch up on email etc.
 
One thing that would really help is if the cars could be loaded onto the train cars into cubbies from the side. For that you'd need either shorter cars or wider trains.

220px-Supertrain.jpg
 
I would love the idea of a west coast Auto Train. I think it's a better idea than the high speed rail they are trying to build, since you only need to build vehicle loading/offloading facilities at either end.

However, the problem with using the San Joaquin route is that it only goes as far south as Bakersfield, and our Leafs simply won't make it there from LA. The Coast Starlight route does go to Union Station, but it is a much slower ride (12 hours vs. 9 on the San Joaquin, including the 3 hour bus trip between LA and Bakersfield).
 
jsongster said:
We have a port in Oakland where the San Joaquin and capitol corridor trains load... we also have busy ports for loading and unloading auto train cars in Benicia... I'm certain that some of the SoCal train stations could have a siding for unhooking the incoming cars and hooking up the preloaded outgoing ones.

A perfect spot, if they don't wait too long, is the former Taylor Yards on San Fernando Rd near the intersection of the 5/2/110 freeways. It was abandoned when Southern Pacific Railroad was absorbed into Union Pacific. It's still widely undeveloped but is slowly being replaced by development.
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
One thing that would really help is if the cars could be loaded onto the train cars into cubbies from the side. For that you'd need either shorter cars or wider trains.

The train cars used on the EuroTunnel's "LeShuttle" auto train service have roll up sides, so cars are able to load from the sides rather than all having to enter from the end of the last car. But the cars are still loaded lengthwise.

Wider train cars won't work as that would cause problems in many places especially tunnels, like the one beneath Newhall Pass, which is single-track and built in 1876. Even the ones for LeShuttle are wider than used in the UK or France and are thus limited to the two terminals on either side of the English Channel.
 
As pertains to the San Joaquins only going to BFD... A quick charger in Lebec would get us over Tejon Pass... all downhill to LA from there.
 
jsongster said:
As pertains to the San Joaquins only going to BFD... A quick charger in Lebec would get us over Tejon Pass... all downhill to LA from there.

Problem is, besides the fact that the only QC's between BFD and SCV are for Tesla's only, is that if you're going to drive all the way to Bakersfield just to board a train to SF, then you might as well drive the rest of the way. EVs can't do this practically, but for this to work it needs to have the support of all motorists and not just EV's.

It's the same reason why I don't have much faith in the current phase of high speed rail (who's going to make a 3 hour car or bus journey to Bakersfield just to ride a fast train?) or in the proposal to add such to Las Vegas but it will only go as far south as Victorville.
 
Remember that even in rail-favorable regions like Europe and Japan, there is a large amount of government backing to keep their rail networks as good as they are. Amtrak's biggest problem is that it, like the post office, are expected to be self-sufficient. But except for the Northeast Corridor, and Amtrak/state partnerships like the San Joaquin and the Cascades, their routes are generally money-losers.

It's a chicken-and-egg problem: there are those in government who think Amtrak shouldn't get any funding until it gets its ridership up, if at all. But of course unless service improves, riders will stay away, plus airline travel is often cheaper and certainly a lot faster.

Let's not forget that Amtrak itself came into being because the private rail companies were pulling out of the passenger rail business. Our crappy state of passenger rail long predates Amtrak. You can thank the interstate highway system and cheap gas for that.

Also, other factors in Europe and Japan make people tend to favor rail for long distance travel, particularly the cost of fuel. I understand that a higher percentage of Japanese vs. Americans don't have driver's licenses as well.
 
So... looks to me like most folks here think this would be a good idea to at least ask Amtrak about. Probably Amtrak California first. I will try to sum it up and send it up to folks to see if anyone salutes.

I think it could work very well as an interim step to High Speed Rail which will be in development now for at least another 10 years... to allow many folks to carry their autos around the state hopping on or off in various stations up and down the west coast. Even if we simply augment the auto loading facilities on the coast at each major port so we can load railcars there and have them added to the trains that already run north and south daily.

If electric car drivers with smaller batteries were enabled to take their vehicles with them, students heading off to college could take their cars, residents who prefer their own car to rentals, It could be an awesome range extender for any car. Freeing up the highways between metro areas for the truckers which usually results in them being safer. Many folks love the AutoTrain on the east coast it is very popular. Why not duplicate that success here on the left coast?
 
I don't think having multiple loading/unloading points for vehicles would be practical within California. It would slow down the system (cars need way more time to be loaded/unloaded than people) and you would need to set aside different car carriers for different destinations, adding to the cost and complexity. Even the Auto Train today only has two loading/unloading points: Lorton, VA and Sanford, FL.

Now if Amtrak were to do this all the way to Seattle, it might be more practical, but should still be limited in number. Say north of downtown LA (again the former Taylor Yards between Glendale and LA would work well), Oakland, somewhere between Redding and Medford for far northern CA/southern OR, Portland, and then Seattle.

I think the best shot is to initially have service between LA and the Bay Area, using the existing Coast Starlight line, since that already has passenger service between Oakland and LA (unlike the San Joaquin route). Make it an overnight journey to complement the Coast Starlight (which leaves both LA and Sacramento in the morning), giving passengers without vehicles now two possible trains per day. Plus it would save those with cars a night's stay in a hotel, unless they want to pony up for the Sleeper Car compartment.
 
RonDawg said:
I think the best shot is to initially have service between LA and the Bay Area, using the existing Coast Starlight line, since that already has passenger service between Oakland and LA (unlike the San Joaquin route). Make it an overnight journey to complement the Coast Starlight (which leaves both LA and Sacramento in the morning), giving passengers without vehicles now two possible trains per day. Plus it would save those with cars a night's stay in a hotel, unless they want to pony up for the Sleeper Car compartment.
That's a great idea! And I consider the added roomette well worth the cost; we've used it several times.

Example I just pulled: 2 adults, Oakland to LA one way: $122. With roomette: $230.
Do note that the roomette includes free meals in the dining car, though on a 9PM to 9AM schedule that would only be breakfast. Hopefully the roomette cost would be lower because of that.

I haven't looked at AutoTrain fares. How much extra do you pay for the car?

Ray
 
Bay Area to LA is just too close - if you are taking a car, just take an ICE, and drive it in less time than the train will take - and you end up where you want to be in the LA area, not just at the train station.

We might use such for Bay Area to Portland, as that is overnight in a sleeper, and a stretch to do it without an overnight driving a gas/diesel car. The real thing that needs to happen for the service to be worthwhile, though, is for the cost of the round trip for the car to add less than the cost of simply renting a car in Portland. Enterprise will shuttle you between the train station and their location a few blocks away in downtown Portland.

Aside from beating the car rental price, they would need to find space for the car staging, loading/unloading, and the like at San Jose and Portland. I doubt either location has enough track space. (Not to mention the added complexity of loading/unloading in what is essentially a few minute stop.
 
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