quick charger locations idea

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WichitaKS

Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2013
Messages
14
Location
Wichita, KS, USA
Nissan said just last week that they plan to build 1400 quick charge stations around the USA. I suggest that they stop putting them in strange places and put one at all the Interstate rest stops on the highways. Also they should aim to put at least one in every state to back up their claims that the Nissan Leaf is supported 100% everywhere in the USA.
 
Rest areas might be a good location, although vandalism would probably be an issue..

In addition to that tho, if they could make sure they place them between 2 parking spots and make sure the cord will reach either.
I just pulled into a place to get a fast charge and there was a Leaf there already almost done. So I parked next to it.
The charge finished, and I was waiting.
I couldn't have made the cord reach the spot I was in, it was only long enough to reach the spot it was RIGHT in front of...

After 30 minutes (after the charge had completed), I gave up and went back to the office.

desiv
 
Those rest areas are often administered by entities with either conflicts of interest or a bureaucratic inertia that is positively geological. The Thruway Authority in NY has been stalling on this for many years. When contacted they just say that it "is in the planning stage." Nissan can't just put in charging stations in places like this even if they want to do so.
 
LeftieBiker said:
Those rest areas are often administered by entities with either conflicts of interest or a bureaucratic inertia that is positively geological

Yes, but given that rest areas on federal interstates are state run, it is an entity that likely can be shamed into movement by pointing out how ineffective their other green energy policies are without the support of long distance electric vehicle travel. Most major cities are well on their way to having an EV charging infrastructure, but without a mechanism to get between such major cities, such programs will be mostly ineffective at getting people to make the move to electric.
 
It always has been, and it always will be about willing hosts...and it will cost more money to install and operate than it will bring in...

Unfortunately, that's why the best or most convenient locations are usually not the ones that work.
 
WichitaKS said:
Nissan said just last week that they plan to build 1400 quick charge stations around the USA. I suggest that they stop putting them in strange places and put one at all the Interstate rest stops on the highways. Also they should aim to put at least one in every state to back up their claims that the Nissan Leaf is supported 100% everywhere in the USA.
I doubt if that would happen, seeing as though it would be a government essentially playing favorites with a manufacturer. Why not CCS or Supercharger, for example. Not to mention hydrogen or CNG. I think it will have to be something outside of the rest stops. Perhaps partnering with some truck stop company or something. There are stations at Cracker Barrels in Tennessee, so that could serve as a template of the sort of thing they could try.
 
desiv said:
Rest areas might be a good location, although vandalism would probably be an issue.

That doesn't seem to discourage Tesla placing their SuperChargers in some pretty remote areas.

I agree with Leftie that bureaucracy is going to be a huge hurdle to overcome. Another one is simply hostility from those who don't, or refuse to, understand the benefits of these stations. On public land, there will be those who protest "taxpayer dollars" being used to benefit a specific minority of drivers. Never mind that many municipalities already have public charging stations set up.

Even in "EV-enlightened" California, there is hostility to what is being perceived as taxpayer-funded perks towards EV drivers, like solo HOV lane access, free or discounted HOT lane and toll bridge access, and especially tax credits and rebates. When people challenge me about the government incentives, saying that his or her tax dollars should not be used to subsidize my "freak" car, I remind them that my tax dollars should not be used to subsidize their desire to get a larger and/or nicer house than they could otherwise afford (via the mortgage interest deduction). That usually shuts them up.
 
RonDawg said:
desiv said:
Rest areas might be a good location, although vandalism would probably be an issue.
That doesn't seem to discourage Tesla placing their SuperChargers in some pretty remote areas..
I've always considered "rest areas" much lower on the "places I'd want to be" chart than "pretty remote areas."

But that's just me.. ;-)

I do agree tho that the bureaucracy involved would make it really tricky...

desiv
 
Yes, but given that rest areas on federal interstates are state run, it is an entity that likely can be shamed into movement by pointing out how ineffective their other green energy policies are without the support of long distance electric vehicle travel.

Heh. You haven't dealt with many state government agencies, have you? I used to work for one, and can say that few if any of them have any shame whatsoever.
 
There is plenty of private land along the interstates that would welcome some investment.
Elon is not a magician, you have to do the leg work and spend some money.
 
smkettner said:
There is plenty of private land along the interstates that would welcome some investment.
Elon is not a magician, you have to do the leg work and spend some money.

There has to be incentive for not only allowing them to be built, but for maintaining them as well.
 
smkettner said:
There is plenty of private land along the interstates that would welcome some investment.
Elon is not a magician, you have to do the leg work and spend some money.
That's true. Seems like that would make a good kickstarter or gofundme campaign. You just need to rent some space from, for example, a rest stop. Get a charger setup on it's own electrical connection and get the word out. Ideally, you would check the EV station maps and just find the gaps between major cities where no charge stations exist. This way, Leaf owners could make the long distance jump from city to city knowing that in between they can top off the battery at least.
 
LeftieBiker said:
The Thruway Authority in NY has been stalling on this for many years. When contacted they just say that it "is in the planning stage." Nissan can't just put in charging stations in places like this even if they want to do so.

I know it's basically the same as them saying that it "is in the planning stage", but I was happy to see that they actually mention Level 3 charging stations on their website now. http://www.thruway.ny.gov/oursystem/environmental/energy.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"In addition, the Authority is working towards installing level III electric vehicle charging stations at select travel plazas across the System."

Maybe it'll actually happen this decade!
 
"In addition, the Authority is working towards installing level III electric vehicle charging stations at select travel plazas across the System."

Gotta love that "working towards" - as if they have to invent the stations as well as install them.
 
LeftieBiker said:
"In addition, the Authority is working towards installing level III electric vehicle charging stations at select travel plazas across the System."

Gotta love that "working towards" - as if they have to invent the stations as well as install them.

Now that eVgo is expanding into the NYC area, I'm hoping that maybe the state with sign a contract with eVgo to have them install and operate the stations on the Thruway.
 
knightmb said:
smkettner said:
There is plenty of private land along the interstates that would welcome some investment.
Elon is not a magician, you have to do the leg work and spend some money.
That's true. Seems like that would make a good kickstarter or gofundme campaign. You just need to rent some space from, for example, a rest stop. Get a charger setup on it's own electrical connection and get the word out. Ideally, you would check the EV station maps and just find the gaps between major cities where no charge stations exist. This way, Leaf owners could make the long distance jump from city to city knowing that in between they can top off the battery at least.
No it is a dead end business for now. The money will be made selling the vehicles. Nissan needs to get these in, charge a nominal fee to give the land owner and pay the maintenance for ten years while they make money on selling EVs. We are so far away from critical mass it is not even funny.
Southern CA to Las Vegas would be my first corridor. Then San Francisco to Reno. Then Los Angeles to San Francisco. First focus on where the EVs actually are.
JMHO
 
desiv said:
Rest areas might be a good location, although vandalism would probably be an issue..
I don't think vandalism should be an issue at all, "in this day and age". Perhaps I'm naive, but I'd think that motion-activated, hi-def, wide-angle cameras (which send the recorded stream(s) to a central location) would be simple and inexpensive to include with the installations. Add prominent signs warning about this remote surveillance to a well-lit area, and hopefully that would be deterrent enough.

I do think each location -- especially those close to population centers -- should have at least two plugs, though!
 
Until we have multiple 100+kW chargers and some actual 150+mile cars for the masses we will not get traction. Tesla nailed it with their charge rate and decent range. Interstate trips in a Leaf is not viable for most folks. You have to spend about 1/3 of your time charging at best, assuming the are empty fast chargers along the way. So we need both a better charging standard to get installed and for higher range cars to actually appear.

Stopping ever hour and averaging 40 mph down the highway is a miserable proposition.
 
Moof said:
Until we have multiple 100+kW chargers and some actual 150+mile cars for the masses we will not get traction. Tesla nailed it with their charge rate and decent range. Interstate trips in a Leaf is not viable for most folks. You have to spend about 1/3 of your time charging at best, assuming the are empty fast chargers along the way. So we need both a better charging standard to get installed and for higher range cars to actually appear.

Stopping ever hour and averaging 40 mph down the highway is a miserable proposition.

You mean like the current Toyota RAV4 EV with a CHAdeMO port? Or the several "200 mile" (GM Bolt, Tesla Model 3, Nissan LEAF) cars due to enter the market in the next 2-4 years?

Or the CHAdeMO and CCS standard that is ALREADY 200 amp capable (no new standard required to increase the charge rate from 125 amps to 200)?

My written proposal to the California Energy Comission (CEC) on or before 15 Feb 2015 for EV corridor travel within our fine state will highlight:

1) Because hydrogen refueled vehicles are sometimes referred to by some as "electric vehicles", first I need to clarify that my proposal is specifically for vehicles that require electrcity to "refuel" the vehicle. That could be a gasoline or hydrogen plug-in hybrid, provided that car has the required DC charge port installed.

2) Placement of EV charging plazas with the highest rate chargers (200 amps for CCS, CHAdeMO) along the logical inter and intra routes that Californians drive their cars, not where policy makers and think tanks have determined that folks might actually drive an 80 mile range EV. The future is not all 80 mile range EVs.

3) Those plazas would consume sub-20kW of continuous power to eliminate "demand fees".

4) These plazas would largely be in relatively rural areas, where urban planning issues are largely eliminated (impacted parking, difficult power distribution, etc).

5) Large enough battery storage to power XX number of cars per day based on expected usage at that site. The worst case scenario is that the battery is depleted and only a single car at a time can be recharged at near 20kW. In such cases, a backup natural gas generator might be practical. Another option, made possible because of the rural areas, will be night time power generation via a windmill.

6) Specified to use a simple 208 / 240 volt "single phase" power source with a 100 amp circuit breaker. Yes, the meager requirements of any single average house could power this. No huge transformer requirements and no expensive three phase requirements in sparsely populated areas that might not have this service.

7) By planning now for future more capable cars, these should be placed 75-100 miles apart. That still allows 37-50 mile "in between" stations for the current crop of 80 mile capable cars. I recommend simple 20kW CHAdeMO / CCS charge ports at these inbetween locations, and no other hardware.

8) The "charging plazas", would have a minimum of two separate DC chargers, and a total of three separate charge cords at each plaza; one for CCS, and two for CHAdeMO minimum.

9) Private company Tesla Motors should be solicited to install at least a single Supercharger at each location to make it a truly "EV Plaza", however their equipment may be limited to 200 amp service (they currently are at over 300 amps)

10) No charge cards, fobs or cash will be required at the stations. Prepaid travel vouchers can be purchased online, anywhere at any time and a "Liberty" style ten key code will activate the station. No networking required to make the station work, although networking can add complimentary features such as security, advertising, maintenance monitoring, etc.

11) 10 year minimum land agreements

12) 10 year maintenance funding from CEC

13) Solar canopies over the charge locations for comfort with ample lighting and signage to easily find the chargers

14) Use the "West Coast Electric Highway" logo with "California" added, like the Interstate freeway signs. California has been a signatory member since 2009.

15) Fees are charged from the very first day of operation compatible with industry norms. At the very first DC charger on the nation's largest EV charging network, ChargePoint, the fee is 15 cents per minute of use, which I propose should be the standard to meet for 20kW rates. 80-100kW rates should be slightly more.

16) At least one J1772 and one Tesla HPC should be at each station for local use. It would not be intended to provide power for long range travel, where the fastest charge is desirable.

17) Public restrooms with lockable door codes for charge customers only (where other restroom options do not exist)

18) All of this is grossly less expensive than a single hydrogen refueling station.
 
How about placing them at fast food restaurants? These places have enough parking, and if we are there for 30 minutes we could use that time to help clog our arteries. One national chain could put in a few at each spot. Many are open 24 hours and they are not in any remote areas. They could run it as a profit center and since we are already a "captive audience" they could provide a 5% discount inside their store.

One chain in particular have you sit in your car and eat. What about having a DC fast charger at some slots? The 30 minutes we are there they could charge us to charge and sell us food at t he same time.
 
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