smkettner
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Re: I Want my (fast) DC!

Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:28 pm

No. Three phase service to residential areas is far and few between.
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edatoakrun
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Re: I Want my (fast) DC!

Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:39 pm

smkettner wrote:The Utility is willing to pull three phase service to a business because they have a large motor(s) running 10 to 24 hours a day and they can make money. If three phase is pulled to a QC station the utility will sell what maybe an hour a week of electricity? No money, no wire, no transformers. Now if the project pays for the connection it probably would go. Could also run into additional improvements needed upstream to meet the demand while in use. The real beauty is charging at night when the system is under utilized and that advantage does not apply to QC.


Of course, it makes no sense to use DC charging except when neccessary, for those rare occasions when daily mileage exceeds a vehicles range, and you can't charge off-peak.

But for those occasions, L2 isn't very useful, unless you have something useful to do for many hours while you wait.

The added cost of DC installations obviously must be paid for by the EV driver.

For example, I'll be more than happy to pay $1 a KW for a DC charge, sometime in the "Week of May 2", on I-5, anywhere between Williams and Red Bluff, CA...
no condition is permanent

DarkStar
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Re: I Want my (fast) DC!

Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:56 pm

edatoakrun wrote:Yes, I already read this article, but was still unsure if, as your earlier comment suggests, 3 phase power is uniformly transmitted to residential (and other) transformers.

Is this correct?

No, like it was already stated, it all depends on what the power utility has ran down the street and makes available.

edatoakrun wrote:If So, the Nissan Salesman was apparently misinformed when he told me that 3 phase power was unavailable on the Redding street where Crown Nissan is located. And the installation of DC Chargers would seem to be possible virtually anywhere there is a power line, so long as 3 phase service is requested from the utility, and paid for by the customer.

Is this also correct?

Nissan's DC Quick Charger appears to require three-phase power, so yes you could install a DC Quick Charger wherever three-phase power is available. However, a DC Quick Charger does not necessarily need three-phase power.
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edatoakrun
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Re: I Want my (fast) DC!

Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:28 pm

DarkStar wrote:Nissan's DC Quick Charger appears to require three-phase power, so yes you could install a DC Quick Charger wherever three-phase power is available. However, a DC Quick Charger does not necessarily need three-phase power.


Which brings me back to my question posted this morning:

At my local Nissan dealer, in Redding Ca, I was told a DC charger installation there was impossible (2 L2 chargers are 24 hour accessible) because Redding Electric Utility could or would not provide 3 phase service. But I have read on other threads that 3 phase is not neccessary for DC charger installations.

Would members with a greater understanding of the US grid design, commercial service standards, and DC charger design, please explain power requirements and just how difficult it is to locate DC charge stations?


To restate the same question, are there already sufficient locations (every 50 miles along interstate highways) in the US where DC chargers (3 phase or otherwise) can be located, with sufficient electrical infrastructure already in place, so that total installation costs are in the order of (only) tens of thousands of dollars for each DC charger?
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Rake
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Re: I Want my (fast) DC!

Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:36 pm

edatoakrun wrote:
DarkStar wrote:Nissan's DC Quick Charger appears to require three-phase power, so yes you could install a DC Quick Charger wherever three-phase power is available. However, a DC Quick Charger does not necessarily need three-phase power.


Which brings me back to my question posted this morning:

At my local Nissan dealer, in Redding Ca, I was told a DC charger installation there was impossible (2 L2 chargers are 24 hour accessible) because Redding Electric Utility could or would not provide 3 phase service. But I have read on other threads that 3 phase is not neccessary for DC charger installations.

Would members with a greater understanding of the US grid design, commercial service standards, and DC charger design, please explain power requirements and just how difficult it is to locate DC charge stations?


To restate the same question, are there already sufficient locations (every 50 miles along interstate highways) in the US where DC chargers (3 phase or otherwise) can be located, with sufficient electrical infrastructure already in place, so that total installation costs are in the order of (only) tens of thousands of dollars for each DC charger?

The answer is yes, absolutely. However not in your home.
edit: You can never say never. Exceptions would be in places like multi-family dwellings where 3 phase might be available at the service. The price of getting a private 3 phase service would likely be very cost prohibitive.
~Rake
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smkettner
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Re: I Want my (fast) DC!

Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:53 pm

DarkStar wrote:However, a DC Quick Charger does not necessarily need three-phase power.

And there are single phase to three phase converters. Basically a single phase motor and three phase generator in a single housing. Service station had one 30 years ago to run the wheel balancer. This may not be practical for a full power QC.
1 bar lost at 21,451 miles, 16 months.
2 bar lost at 35,339 miles, 25 months.
LEAF traded at 45,400 miles for a RAV4-EV

edatoakrun
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Re: I Want my (fast) DC!

Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:59 pm

Rake wrote:...The answer is yes, absolutely. However not in your home...


That's what I thought, thanks.

Actually, I still think L1 will be sufficient for my home.

But I still think L2, even if Nissan upgrades to a faster charger, will be insufficient for on-the-road charging.

I sure hope I get at least a few chances to use the DC port I ordered, before the 3 year lease expires.
no condition is permanent

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Rake
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Re: I Want my (fast) DC!

Mon Apr 11, 2011 3:03 pm

smkettner wrote:
DarkStar wrote:However, a DC Quick Charger does not necessarily need three-phase power.

And there are single phase to three phase converters. Basically a single phase motor and three phase generator in a single housing. Service station had one 30 years ago to run the wheel balancer. This may not be practical for a full power QC.

Yes there are, and yes you can rectify single phase into DC.
The quality (cleanness) of the DC depends on the waveform of the input, and how complex the rectifier circuitry is.
A decent site:
http://www.carroll-meynell.com/technica ... cation.htm

Layman's terms? AC travels in a sine wave, DC in a straight line (as seen on a scope). The more waves that are overlapped, the easier (and efficient) it is to chop off the unwanted portion of the sine wave to make it appear like a straight line.
~Rake
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jimcmorr
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Re: I Want my (fast) DC!

Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:04 am

Seems like one of these existing high capacity DC chargers could be adapted to charge the LEAF battery more quickly than the 3.3KW rate currently (heh heh no pun intended :shock: ) available.

http://www.metricmind.com/charger.htm

http://www.evparts.com/products/street- ... ch2440.htm

Neither of these require 3 phase power. Though BRUSA does have a model that can accept 3 phase. BRUSA also mentions that they have a 22KW model in the works.

So it would seem that it would be possible to have a DC charge station on a single phase supply, though perhaps taking a little longer than 20 to 30 minutes to charge.

Just a thought. Perhaps someone who has the background and knowledge will put together a single phase DC charge station.

JIm M :geek:
Jim M
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Smidge204
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Re: I Want my (fast) DC!

Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:52 am

jimcmorr wrote:So it would seem that it would be possible to have a DC charge station on a single phase supply, though perhaps taking a little longer than 20 to 30 minutes to charge

There's no (technical) reason you couldn't rig an off-board DC charger that ran on single phase power, you just need the appropriate wiring and service size to feed it.

It's all about the coulombs, Jim!
=Smidge=

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