GregH
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Re: DC Quickcharging for Leafs at dealers

Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:48 am

BEVeedom wrote:2000 chargers and 70,000 cars are a drop in the bucket in terms of all petrol service stations and vehicles worldwide. Let's correct the mistake now, early, and switch to SAE Combo or "Frankenplug". I believe the Society of Automotive Engineers will triumph and that it just makes sense to have one plug to cover Level II and Level III charging. No changes are required on the Level II J1772 system that is in place and there is 0 Level III infrastructure at this moment, even in Washington, DC. Until the CHAdeMO vs. SAE Combo issue is resolved, I can see no business case for Level III investment.

Give in Elon and Nissan (Carlos Chosn?) and you can star in "Who Saved the Electric Car". I'm a Marylander and can't even drive my Leaf to Ocean City in the summertime. Well, unless I want to spend 4 hours at a lonely professional park in Stevensville, for crying out loud. I guess I could bring a hibachi and have a very long picnic? Making a 3 hour drive take 7 hours is not progress. Regardless of the outcome, America needs a Level III infrastructure for the BEV to survive.

The other hope is the new 6.6KW on-board Level II charger on the 2013 Leaf and others. This will, at least, cut Level II charging time in half.

Now don't get me wrong, I love my BEV and it is perfect for our normal driving. I'm never going back to liquid fuel and we are only in the infancy of the transformation from ICE to the electrification of auto transport.


Gasoline stations have multiple pumps for multiple fuels (regular, premium, diesel) and it's not unreasonable to think that DCQC stations couldn't offer multiple plugs at a single site (possibly even from a single piece of hardware). You wouldn't need multiple underground tanks, they all share the same source! Nothing to get worked up over folks..
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Luft
Posts: 418
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2011 1:06 pm
Location: Tenino, WA

Re: DC Quickcharging for Leafs at dealers

Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:04 am

The problem is that GM and others who are pressing for a competing standard are not acting in good faith. They just want a fly that they can put into the ointment.

If Nissan is serious about their EV program they will work to install as many of their DC QC stations as they can but they need to be smart in the choice of locations and terms.

Nissan can offer incentives for dealers to install these QC stations in return for rights to control access and pricing. The goal here is to promote EV adoption not to make buckets of money recharging EVs.

Nissan needs to ensure that EVs have corridors along highways that will allow EV drivers to travel to and from popular points of interest. They also need to ensure that they can keep the cost of charging attractive to EV drivers and potential EV purchasers.
BEVeedom wrote:2000 chargers and 70,000 cars are a drop in the bucket in terms of all petrol service stations and vehicles worldwide. Let's correct the mistake now, early, and switch to SAE Combo or "Frankenplug". I believe the Society of Automotive Engineers will triumph and that it just makes sense to have one plug to cover Level II and Level III charging. No changes are required on the Level II J1772 system that is in place and there is 0 Level III infrastructure at this moment, even in Washington, DC. Until the CHAdeMO vs. SAE Combo issue is resolved, I can see no business case for Level III investment.

Give in Elon and Nissan (Carlos Chosn?) and you can star in "Who Saved the Electric Car". I'm a Marylander and can't even drive my Leaf to Ocean City in the summertime. Well, unless I want to spend 4 hours at a lonely professional park in Stevensville, for crying out loud. I guess I could bring a hibachi and have a very long picnic? Making a 3 hour drive take 7 hours is not progress. Regardless of the outcome, America needs a Level III infrastructure for the BEV to survive.

The other hope is the new 6.6KW on-board Level II charger on the 2013 Leaf and others. This will, at least, cut Level II charging time in half.

Now don't get me wrong, I love my BEV and it is perfect for our normal driving. I'm never going back to liquid fuel and we are only in the infancy of the transformation from ICE to the electrification of auto transport.
Luft
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GRA
Posts: 10454
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Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: DC Quickcharging for Leafs at dealers

Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:55 pm

So it's April now, and AFAIK Nissan still hasn't published a list of all dealers with QCs, even though SF Bay Leafs were told back in mid-January that they would have lots of them within 60 days. People have been reporting them individually as they're spotted in Socal, but I haven't heard of any except Santa Rosa in the SF Bay Area. So when is Nissan going to tell us, or this just more of the same "they'll be everywhere" BS?
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Phoenix
Posts: 244
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:53 pm
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Leaf Number: 1511
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: DC Quickcharging for Leafs at dealers

Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:05 pm

Don't forget NorthBay Nissan in Petaluma has a DC QC that is 24/7, plus Schneider Level 2s. Again, it's 24/7. Also heard that Elk Grove Nissan (near Sacramento) will be having their grand opening DC QC around April 2013 for Earth Day.

GRA
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Re: DC Quickcharging for Leafs at dealers

Wed Apr 03, 2013 4:38 pm

Phoenix wrote:Don't forget NorthBay Nissan in Petaluma has a DC QC that is 24/7, plus Schneider Level 2s. Again, it's 24/7. Also heard that Elk Grove Nissan (near Sacramento) will be having their grand opening DC QC around April 2013 for Earth Day.

Again, why doesn't someone at Nissan give us a consolidated list?
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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RegGuheert
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Re: DC Quickcharging for Leafs at dealers

Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:52 am

GregH wrote:...it's not unreasonable to think that DCQC stations couldn't offer multiple plugs at a single site (possibly even from a single piece of hardware). You wouldn't need multiple underground tanks, they all share the same source!
The problem is exactly that they share the same source. That source can only provide a certain amount of electricity. On top of that, each plug requires its own quick charger, which are neither cheap nor reliable at this point. I think Tesla is smart to provide the high-speed chargers in the car.
RegGuheert
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Elephanthead
Posts: 166
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:54 am
Delivery Date: 20 Feb 2013

Re: DC Quickcharging for Leafs at dealers

Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:23 am

RegGuheert wrote:
GregH wrote:...it's not unreasonable to think that DCQC stations couldn't offer multiple plugs at a single site (possibly even from a single piece of hardware). You wouldn't need multiple underground tanks, they all share the same source!
The problem is exactly that they share the same source. That source can only provide a certain amount of electricity. On top of that, each plug requires its own quick charger, which are neither cheap nor reliable at this point. I think Tesla is smart to provide the high-speed chargers in the car.


Charger in the car or not it still needs the same power from the grid. Expect charging stations to be located under transmission lines or near power stations. I don't know how a charging station will store enough to charge 30 cars an hour.

GregH
Posts: 860
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Re: DC Quickcharging for Leafs at dealers

Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:54 am

RegGuheert wrote:
GregH wrote:...it's not unreasonable to think that DCQC stations couldn't offer multiple plugs at a single site (possibly even from a single piece of hardware). You wouldn't need multiple underground tanks, they all share the same source!
The problem is exactly that they share the same source. That source can only provide a certain amount of electricity. On top of that, each plug requires its own quick charger, which are neither cheap nor reliable at this point. I think Tesla is smart to provide the high-speed chargers in the car.

True, but this would be the case if it were two Chademos or a Chademo and a Frankenplug.. Just last week I tried "sharing" a dual port Blink station with another Leaf and when the 2nd car plugged in it had to wait until my "80%" (ie 72%) charge had completed.. no sharing of electrons, strictly single file. There's no reason the DCQC charger guts couldn't feed two different connection protocols albeit one at a time.
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DaveinOlyWA
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Re: DC Quickcharging for Leafs at dealers

Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:40 pm

Chalk it up to another "V-8" moment.

No reason a 2nd car could not start taking power as thefirst starts tapering down
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tbleakne
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Re: DC Quickcharging for Leafs at dealers

Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:15 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:Chalk it up to another "V-8" moment.

No reason a 2nd car could not start taking power as thefirst starts tapering down

Tesla has announced that they are going to do exactly this. It will be a 120 kW unit (edit) twelve 10 kW charge modules identical to the one or two modules in each Model S) with two hoses. Each hose will supply up to 90 kW initially, but the sum will be no more than 120 kW.

I am not sure whether any of these dual-hose units have been deployed. They have their hands full installing more single-hose units, up to 6 at one location, to keep up with demand.
Last edited by tbleakne on Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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