Anyone into electric cycling? Electric Bicycles

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There is a waiting list, and it could be delivered by the end of the year. I am making payments, and they will deliver it when I can finish paying for it. I am reconstructing the roof on my house, and we bought a Bolt EV, so I have less money available than I had hoped.
 
Hello,

I might be planning to buy a simple electric bike soon, so I am hoping the experts here can offer some feedback.

Its primarily for the occasionally errands/ ride to tuition center/ grocery shopping/ and the occasional ride to a faraway park (15 miles round trip tops); Primary users are the wife, early teen and myself.

I think we could potentially get a deal on this GenZe recreational model for $1000 : "GenZe e102" (women's / Rec model) https://www.genze.com/e-bikes/#-102-SIL-350-SKD
I found a review here, for the e101 (men's / Sports model) https://electricbikereview.com/forum/threads/one-year-test-riding-a-genze-e101.12824/ and it seems decent.

Do you folks think for the specs, $1000 is a reasonable cost?

Thanks for any feedback.
 
I like that it has both pedal assist and throttle modes, and the specs I can see, like motor power, are ok for what you want. They are pretty mum about things like battery capacity and even type, though. I assume it's lithium, but given the size of the battery compartment in the frame their range estimates seem, as usual, optimistic.
 
Thanks for your feedback LeftieBiker. Appreciate the 2nd set of eyes on the bike.

The sales rep mentioned that the battery is indeed as you guessed a Li-Ion, 36V, 8.5AH ; charge time to 100% in 3.5 hrs using a power brick. Total weight of the bike incl battery is 46 pounds. Wheels are 26" x 1.75" which I assume are standard size bike wheels (?)

The specs indicated that with pedal assist, you get 30 - 50 miles and throttle only gets 15 - 18 miles.

Is there any other electric bike in this price range, and is comparable to the GenZe? I'd like to read up some more about the alternatives, but I am not following the electric bike scene. A bit clueless at the moment.

LeftieBiker said:
I like that it has both pedal assist and throttle modes, and the specs I can see, like motor power, are ok for what you want. They are pretty mum about things like battery capacity and even type, though. I assume it's lithium, but given the size of the battery compartment in the frame their range estimates seem, as usual, optimistic.
 
The wheels are close enough to standard. With an 8.5AH lithium pack you get maybe 7 AH usable, for an assisted range of maybe 20-22 miles on a route with some hills. "Scootering" in throttle mode with no pedaling would get about half that, or less. The range specs always assume flat terrain, light rider, tailwind... I have a giant 20AH Ping pack on my EZIP Trailz, and that is good for maybe 35-40 miles assisted. My bike is heavier, though, and while it has more torque than hubmotor bikes, it is also louder, cruder and has less range because of the weight.

I was actually thinking of getting myself a 21st century E-bike, but they all seem to involve trade-offs, like shift and throttle on the wrong sides, no water bottle cage bosses in the frames, and hubmotors with much more power than my bike's 450 watts, but a greater chance of stalling on a steep hill...
 
mxp said:
Hello,

I might be planning to buy a simple electric bike soon, so I am hoping the experts here can offer some feedback.

Its primarily for the occasionally errands/ ride to tuition center/ grocery shopping/ and the occasional ride to a faraway park (15 miles round trip tops); Primary users are the wife, early teen and myself. <snip>
Just curious, but what leads you to an ebike rather than a regular bike for these sorts of trips? Or to put it another way, what are you hoping to accomplish by riding instead of driving, that makes an ebike preferable to one you provide all the power for?
 
LeftieBiker said:
Most casual cyclists don't do 15 mile rides regularly (if at all). If there are hills involved, the answer seems pretty obvious.
Most casual cyclists don't spend 1k on a bike, so I'm just wondering what the OP's rationale is. For me, an e-bike makes sense for utility purposes, i.e. hilly commuting, load hauling etc. but if I'm riding for health/pleasure, I'm going to propel myself. But that's me, and everyone has their own criteria so I wondered what mxp's are, as I'm just up the bay shore from Fremont (which is virtually flat except for the eastern side). I ride the 20-30 mile round trip to/from there occasionally, sometimes on errands but more typically for recreation.
 
Its the hilly terrain (to the park area) and distance which makes the biking not so much fun.
Plus, I think I could convince the wife to spend more time riding a bicycle, if she knew she could make it back home (on electric power) when fatigue sets in.

$1000 is still a huge expense which we would need to think through, especially how often the bike will get utilized....

GRA said:
mxp said:
Hello,

I might be planning to buy a simple electric bike soon, so I am hoping the experts here can offer some feedback.

Its primarily for the occasionally errands/ ride to tuition center/ grocery shopping/ and the occasional ride to a faraway park (15 miles round trip tops); Primary users are the wife, early teen and myself. <snip>
Just curious, but what leads you to an ebike rather than a regular bike for these sorts of trips? Or to put it another way, what are you hoping to accomplish by riding instead of driving, that makes an ebike preferable to one you provide all the power for?
 
Thanks. The GenZe has a 36V 350W brushless rear hub motor. Hopefully, that will be enough to go up some small hills.

LeftieBiker said:
The wheels are close enough to standard. With an 8.5AH lithium pack you get maybe 7 AH usable, for an assisted range of maybe 20-22 miles on a route with some hills. "Scootering" in throttle mode with no pedaling would get about half that, or less. The range specs always assume flat terrain, light rider, tailwind... I have a giant 20AH Ping pack on my EZIP Trailz, and that is good for maybe 35-40 miles assisted. My bike is heavier, though, and while it has more torque than hubmotor bikes, it is also louder, cruder and has less range because of the weight.

I was actually thinking of getting myself a 21st century E-bike, but they all seem to involve trade-offs, like shift and throttle on the wrong sides, no water bottle cage bosses in the frames, and hubmotors with much more power than my bike's 450 watts, but a greater chance of stalling on a steep hill...
 
mxp said:
Its the hilly terrain (to the park area) and distance which makes the biking not so much fun.
Plus, I think I could convince the wife to spend more time riding a bicycle, if she knew she could make it back home (on electric power) when fatigue sets in.

$1000 is still a huge expense which we would need to think through, especially how often the bike will get utilized....
Thanks. Mission Peak? I often hike up to the top on T-giving, XMAS, new year's and/or my birthday, if I'm not out of town, otherwise busy or just lazy. I'm usually the token Caucasian, along with several hundred people of south or east Asian descent making the same hike. :lol:

As to whether you'll have enough power to climb, absolutely:
During a bicycle race, a well trained cyclist can produce / sustain close to 400 watts of mechanical power over an hour and in very short bursts over double that: 1000 to 1100 watts (modern racing cycles have greater than 95% mechanical efficiency). An adult of good fitness is more likely to average between 50 and 150 watts for an hour of vigorous exercise.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_power#Available_power

IIRR, Bryan Allen, who pedaled Paul MacCready's Gossamer Albatross across the English Channel, had to sustain something like 0.7 hp (522W) for almost 2.5 hours, but he was a serious amateur bike racer.

I'm assuming that neither you or your wife are world class racing cyclists, so it's unlikely that you can produce anywhere near 350 watts. BTW, before you make the decision, you might want to go over to S.F. some weekend and rent e-bikes. There are numerous places to choose from, and that will give you the opportunity to try them out on seriously hilly terrain. Just google 'San Francisco electric bike rentals'. Even if you can't try the same model you can probably find one with similar features to get some idea of what you like and dislike, and will save you some cash if you decide against it. Unfortunately, the only time I've ridden e-bikes, although it was in S.F., we were restricted to flat ground so I couldn't try them out on the hills - I would have loved to have tried either the Hyde or Mason street cable car routes to see if I could do them sitting. My reviews of those bikes are here: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=10256&start=150#p472116

I'd recommend renting a couple of different bikes with noticeably different specs to swap between you or even just take several for a test ride (if the store allows) before renting one for the day. I was quite surprised at how very different each of the bikes I rode above felt, even in the benign conditions.
 
You can't directly compare human-generated watts of power with hub-motor-generated watts because of the relatively low low-speed torque of the latter. It's something like a human cyclist with the seat set way too low, so their legs are straining against very steep angles to pedal. I have a 350 watt rear hubmotor bike sitting in the garage that my Sister bought and gave up on, and that bike is a real weakling on hills. Serious hill climbing requires at least a geared motor of some kind (my EZIP uses a separate motor/chain drive powered by a 450 watt DC motor) and preferably a mid-drive motor that can use all of the gear ratios available to the human. So no, a 350 watt hubmotor isn't going to provide as much power on hills as an average human. If you want to climb real hills with a hubmotor bike, look for 750-1000 watts.
 
LeftieBiker said:
You can't directly compare human-generated watts of power with hub-motor-generated watts because of the relatively low low-speed torque of the latter. It's something like a human cyclist with the seat set way too low, so their legs are straining against very steep angles to pedal. I have a 350 watt rear hubmotor bike sitting in the garage that my Sister bought and gave up on, and that bike is a real weakling on hills. Serious hill climbing requires at least a geared motor of some kind (my EZIP uses a separate motor/chain drive powered by a 450 watt DC motor) and preferably a mid-drive motor that can use all of the gear ratios available to the human. So no, a 350 watt hubmotor isn't going to provide as much power on hills as an average human. If you want to climb real hills with a hubmotor bike, look for 750-1000 watts.
I guess we have different use expectations, but to me I look at an e-bike as a pedelec, providing up to an extra 350W, not replacing my entire input. For the latter, I might as well buy an electric scooter or motorcycle rather than a pedelec - I expect to always pedal the latter, rather than just being along for the ride, and that certainly includes climbing hills. I'm not sure where mxp and his wife come down on this.
 
I'm NOT saying that one should expect an E-bike to do all the work on hills for the rider - that would take more than 1000 watts at least, for a hubmotor bike. I'm saying that a rating of 350 watts (which is often the input consumption rating anyway, not actual power output) doesn't translate into that much power being available to assist with hill climbing. A mid-drive system could do it with the bike in a low gear, but remember that hubmotors have fixed "gearing" and will stall easily at low speeds under higher loads. The bike that I called a "weakling" essentially forced me to do 90% of the work on a pretty typical hill.
 
I have a 36v bionx rear hub on a cyclocross bike. A 250w front hub on a cruiser and now a Felt dedicated e bike with the shimano mid drive.
Th felt is by far the most versatile. It can climb a 20% grade with 300+ lbs of bike and rider and neither break a sweat. The bionx climbs like crazy and is fast. Easily cruising along at 20+mph. The cruiser is lame at any thing other than mostly flat terrain.
 
An earlier post mentioned UPS doing this in Portland. Via GCR:
UPS to deliver packages in Florida via electric bikes
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1114171_ups-to-deliver-packages-in-florida-via-electric-bikes

. . . UPS has launched its first silent electric delivery trike along Las Olas Boulevard and the surrounding neighborhoods of Fort Lauderdale, Florida. UPS is deploying the trike to support the the city’s Green Your Routine program and Vision Zero Fort Lauderdale initiative. . . .

[Fort Lauderdale Mayor John P. “Jack” Seiler] “The new bike is a great addition to the street safety enhancements we are making along Las Olas Boulevard to create a friendlier, safer, healthier, and more sustainable experience for everyone, regardless of travel mode.” The initiative is one of many city-level efforts aiming at reducing road fatalities to zero through the redesign of transportation systems. . . .

Like many e-bikes on the market, the UPS solution is more like a moped, combining an electric motor with pedal power for maximum efficiency. The trike can also run solely on battery power or pedal power. (I think we know which will be used more often.) According to manufacturer Truck Trike of Portland, the custom UPS trike can travel at speeds up to 18 mph. It delivers a range of up to 20 miles on a full charge, weighs in at roughly 400 pounds, and has a payload capacity of 800 pounds.
 
It seems the Chinese are REALLY into electric cycling. EV Sales says they sell a LOT of them:
EV Sales said:
This list does not account for electric two- and three-wheelers. The former in the shape of electric bicycles, have really taken off in some countries, first and foremost the very same China, where over 30 million e-bikes are apparently made and sold every year, ~90% of the global amount. I will be very surprised if most e-bikes sold elsewhere are not from China too.
 
Via GCC:
Spanish Postal Service testing three-wheeled E-Cargo Bikes by Bikelecing with 48V Continental system
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/03/20180319-corres.html

The Spanish postal service Correos is testing three-wheeled E-Cargo Bikes by Bikelecing with 48V Continental system for use in narrow or hard to access pedestrian zones, city centers or areas of limited access for motorized vehicles.

The bike features a 250-watt centrally-mounted motor and can carry around 550 liters (19.4 ft3) of packages over a distance of up to 60 kilometers (37 miles), because the integrated torque sensor ensures particularly efficient battery use.

With the cargo bike weighing a total of 38 kg, this means that delivery agents are comparatively light when on the go.

Correos is initially using the three-wheeled bikes in five Spanish cities for some three months from January 2018. Sample models are being used in Madrid, Seville, Málaga, Cordoba and Granada to test them for reliability and everyday suitability. Correos thinks that expansion to other regions and vehicles is a realistic option. . . .
There's a picture.
 
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