edatoakrun
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Delivery Date: 15 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2184
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Re: Autonomous driving LEAF, and the implications for BEVs.

Tue Jul 19, 2016 11:16 am

finman100 wrote:hmm, just the opposite of what ACTUAL Tesla drivers say they experience with auto pilot. The relaxing and less stressfull driving experience...

I expect the driver who crashed his autoplioted S into the truck in Florida was quite likely relaxed and stress-free...

Until the moment before his decapitation.
no condition is permanent

finman100
Posts: 283
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 10:42 am
Delivery Date: 06 Jun 2014
Location: Albany, OR

Re: Autonomous driving LEAF, and the implications for BEVs.

Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:46 pm

Albany, Oregon
2014 Silver SV with charge/LED package. June 2014, I'm in the EV game!
42,000 miles
18.0 kWh on 100% charge (52-ish Ah), down 1 bar
4.2 miles/kWh average
Best trip: all of 'em. They're all no-gas!

GRA
Posts: 7423
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Autonomous driving LEAF, and the implications for BEVs.

Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:41 pm

finman100 wrote:hmm, just the opposite of what ACTUAL Tesla drivers say they experience with auto pilot. The relaxing and less stressfull driving experience. i wonder if ACTUAL Tesla drivers would have any ACTUAL experience behind the wheel in ACTUAL driving environments to ACTUALLY have meaningful feedback.

Might as well take back all those other safety/ convenience systems from all the other car mfgs. Wow, this gets old.

Gee, and all those studies by NASA, NTSB accident investigations et al are outweighed by anecdotal claims of Tesla owners? A former girlfriend worked at NASA Ames doing human factors studies, and I used to read her copy of the proceedings from the conferences (e.g. The Human Factors and Ergonomics Society) she attended. The studies are well-documented over a long period of time, and automation-aided crashes are a continuing problem in the aviation industry, as the human monitors are often unable to tell when the system has switched itself off or is doing something other than what they intend. And that's commercial/military pilots, who get a far higher level of training in how those systems work and their limitations than drivers do. Here's a list of some commercial aviation accidents where flight deck automation was ruled a contributing factor:

http://www.flightdeckautomation.com/acc ... lysis.aspx

Here's some of the analysis of the reasons:

"automation may not work well under unusual conditions"; "mode selection may be incorrect"; "understanding of automation may be inadequate"; "mode awareness may be lacking"; "pilots may be overconfident in automation".

At least three of the above would apply to Brown's death. Here's an account of a fairly recent and highly publicized local automation-aided accident, the Asiana Airlines landing crash at SFO in clear day weather: https://skift.com/2013/12/02/pilot-reli ... t-crashes/

Do you seriously believe that the average driver is somehow more immune to these issues than far more highly screened and recurrently-trained airline or military pilots? I don't know about you, but the last time I was required to do any official driver training was about 30 years ago, when I had to get a limousine license (for insurance reasons) so that I could drive the 15-passenger van owned by the church that sponsored my Scout troop.
Last edited by GRA on Mon Aug 01, 2016 7:06 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
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Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Autonomous driving LEAF, and the implications for BEVs.

Tue Jul 19, 2016 4:42 pm

Via ABG:
Want a black box in your autonomous car? Germany does
http://www.autoblog.com/2016/07/19/germ ... gislation/

Germany is proposing new legislation focused on the growing ranks of semi- and fully autonomous vehicles. Essentially, regulators want black boxes for these vehicles.

According to Reuters, Germany's Minister of Transport Alexander Dobrindt is pushing for legislation that will require recording devices to monitor when driverless systems are active, when a human takes control, and any instance where the car asks for human intervention. Dobrindt's proposal also details what a driver can and can't do behind the wheel – according to Reuters, Germany will always require a human in the driver's seat, but the person doesn't need to pay attention to traffic or focus on steering the car. . . .
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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EVDRIVER
Posts: 5873
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Re: Autonomous driving LEAF, and the implications for BEVs.

Tue Jul 19, 2016 4:45 pm

Based on Nissans ABS and stability control I would not trust their software for autopilot like features. Nissan software almost threw my car into a wall for no reason braking on it's own on a dry surface. Nissan seems to be far behind others in tech development.

edatoakrun
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Re: Autonomous driving LEAF, and the implications for BEVs.

Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:45 am

Back on-topic, Nissan's description of how human and automated systems can share control of the vehicle during the period of transition to fully autonomous vehicles.

Notice that even when the vehicle is under human control, the autonomous features will be utilized back-up the driver in order to help prevent collisions:

Jul. 19, 2016
People behind the ProPILOT: From NASA Mission Control to the driver’s seat, scientist shapes future of autonomous driving


Space was not the final frontier for computer scientist Maarten Sierhuis.

The former NASA researcher, who once designed human-robot interactions and developed collaborative intelligent systems for space exploration, now focuses his efforts a bit closer to home: the artificial intelligence that's helping power the future of Nissan's autonomous vehicles.

But the passion that carried the robotics and artificial intelligence expert to the apogee of the U.S. space program hasn't cooled with his move to an earthly job as director of the Nissan Research Center (NRC) in California's Silicon Valley.

"Bringing this new technology to society, it will change so many things," says Sierhuis, a native of The Netherlands who has lived in the U.S. since 1989. "And call me crazy, but for me part of my drive of wanting to be thinking about these kinds of problems is that I want it to be done right."

Even when the driver is controlling the vehicle, the autonomous features must continue to monitor conditions and, in the event of imminent danger, assist the driver in avoiding an accident.
...

http://nissannews.com/en-US/nissan/usa/ ... us-driving
no condition is permanent

LKK
Posts: 273
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 10:27 am

Re: Autonomous driving LEAF, and the implications for BEVs.

Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:08 pm

Related to this subject. Looks like the Bolt will get this sooner than expected.

http://www.techinsider.io/gms-first-aut ... yft-2016-7

GRA
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Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Autonomous driving LEAF, and the implications for BEVs.

Mon Aug 01, 2016 5:00 pm

Via GCC:
Singapore LTA selects nuTonomy for trials of autonomous mobility-on-demand transportation service; new AV testing center
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2016/08 ... 1-lta.html

In addition to Delphi (earlier post), Singapore’s Land Transport Authority (LTA) has also selected nuTonomy to begin trials of an autonomous mobility-on-demand transportation service. The partnership will expand and accelerate the nuTonomy’s development efforts in Singapore as it progresses towards the launch of a commercial autonomous vehicle (AV) service in 2018.

Delphi and nuTonomy were shortlisted from several participants which submitted proposals for autonomous mobility-on-demand concepts under the Request for Information (RFI) issued by LTA in June last year. (Besides mobility-on-demand services, LTA is also exploring SDVs for other public transport applications, such as self-driving buses.). . . .

If the trials of the Delphi and nuTonomy self-driving vehicles prove successful, the projects would be developed into full-scale mobility solutions for towns in Singapore. Commuters will then have access to an even wider range of public transport options, especially for first-and-last-mile travel, thereby further reducing the reasons to move around in a private car. . . .


Also GCC:
Singapore Land Transport Authority selects Delphi for autonomous vehicle mobility-on-demand program
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2016/08 ... elphi.html
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 7423
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Autonomous driving LEAF, and the implications for BEVs.

Tue Aug 02, 2016 6:34 pm

Via ABG:
Australia to get new coordinates for future autonomous cars
The country has moved roughly five feet in the last 22 years.
http://www.autoblog.com/2016/08/02/aust ... mous-cars/

Australia can't stand still and tectonic activity is to blame. Over the past 22 years, the country has moved approximately five feet. The movement has put the country out of sync with GPS systems and has caused local and global coordinates, which are used to produce maps, to be off by roughly 4.9 feet. In an effort to reflect Australia's new position, its government will officially update the country's new latitude and longitude in 2017, reports BBC News. . . .
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 7423
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Autonomous driving LEAF, and the implications for BEVs.

Wed Aug 03, 2016 6:18 pm

Via ABG:
NADA calls for mandatory autonomous vehicle safety inspections
http://www.autoblog.com/2016/08/03/nada ... spections/

With autonomous vehicles, it's a question of "when" not "if" they'll rule the roads. That's going to require rules and regulations to govern not only their use but their maintenance. According to the North American Dealers Association's chief economist, that should mean mandated, regular inspections.

Automotive News reports that NADA's Steven Szakaly called on the auto industry to adopt the same maintenance mindset as the aviation and mining industries, including a stringent inspection schedule. . . .

"There's a 100-percent certainty that if we don't have mandated service intervals someone's system is not going to be properly maintained, and there's a 100-percent certainty that will end catastrophically in some way."

These are not unfair statements – people are terrible at taking care of their vehicles. But the issue is that they're coming from a major dealership lobby. It's easy to see mandatory regular inspections being a boon for dealerships. Perhaps not at first, but in the future dealers would enjoy a strong and steady supply of customers coming in for their regular inspections. . . .
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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