EvansvilleLeaf
Posts: 164
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:00 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Feb 2012
Leaf Number: 334545
Location: Youngsville NC

Re: Today I drove my ICE Car, Do you still use your ICE car?

Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:01 am

Funnily enough yes just this weekend for first time in two+ mos. Driving to Atlanta and back - app. 850 miles - is not likely in an EV any time soon so we took the CMax Energi. Got about 36mpg mostly 75-80 including heavy rain one way, which isn't that bad, but still hate hearing engines.

This usage pattern is why I don't jump on the "EV range is the be all and end all" bandwagon personally. Every few months I take road trips, but the best hypermiler in a brand new Tesla 85 could not do the vast majority of them, and every other day is well within the bounds of even a degraded Leaf battery running heat every second. Logically if I lived alone I'd just rent an ICE for those few trips, but since we need two cars anyway and the Energi can go all EV for my wife's needs 80-90% of the time it made sense to have the long range option built in. Pity the Volt is just a horrible ergonomic mess for us or that would be 99%.

mbender
Posts: 824
Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2013 8:11 am
Delivery Date: 31 Aug 2014
Leaf Number: 309606
Location: The Great California Delta, and environs

Re: Today I drove my ICE Car, Do you still use your ICE car?

Thu Feb 12, 2015 11:32 pm

EvansvilleLeaf wrote:... Driving to Atlanta and back - app. 850 miles - is not likely in an EV any time soon...

... Every few months I take road trips, but the best hypermiler in a brand new Tesla 85 could not do the vast majority of them ...
Maybe an S85 couldn't do the others, but couldn't it (or a Model 3) do Atlanta and back with only 1 stop, if a supercharger went up outside of Nashville?

Regardless, I'm amazed to see the number of superchargers (163 in the states now), and they are still adding more. Time flies, and (everything about) Tesla is fast!
I think I just felt my paradigm shift.

2012 SL (One of the colors): 2-year lease, 2012+,
2015 S w/QC (A different color): 3-year lease, 2014+,
2017 SV (Same color as 2015 S): 3-year lease, 2017+, lower monthly than either above(!)

User avatar
RegGuheert
Posts: 5421
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:12 am
Delivery Date: 16 Mar 2012
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: Today I drove my ICE Car, Do you still use your ICE car?

Fri Oct 02, 2015 5:52 am

About 9 months have passed since I looked at vehicle usage:
RegGuheert on January 30, 2015 wrote:

Code: Select all

Vehicle                          odometer   miles/year   Efficiency   gal/year   Fuel $/year   Fuel cents/mi
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2011 Nissan LEAF                   23,397      6750        4 mi/kWh       0         $169           2.5
2003 Honda Civic Hybrid            99,610      6400       48 mi/gal     133         $333           5.2
2002 Ford E350                     68,967      1500       13 mi/gal     115         $288          19.2
1998 Plymouth Grand Voyager      ~103,000        00       22 mi/gal       0           $0          11.3
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fleet:                           ~294,974    14,650                     248         $790           5.4 

Assumptions:
- Electricity costs $0.10 per kWh
- Gasoline costs $2.50 per gallon
- Minivan is parked right now, but it is still alive

Code: Select all

Vehicle                          odometer   miles/year   Efficiency   gal/year   Fuel $/year   Fuel cents/mi
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2011 Nissan LEAF                   28,081      7026        4 mi/kWh       0         $211           3.0
2003 Honda Civic Hybrid           102,550      4410       48 mi/gal      92         $229           5.2
2002 Ford E350                     70,088      1700       13 mi/gal     131         $326          19.2
1998 Plymouth Grand Voyager      ~103,000        00       22 mi/gal       0           $0          11.3
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fleet:                           ~303,719    13,136                     223         $766           5.8 

Assumptions:
- Electricity costs $0.12 per kWh
- Gasoline costs $2.50 per gallon
- Minivan is parked right now, but it is still alive
A couple of interesting observations when comparing the recent results with 9 months ago:

- Total annual miles driven has dropped by about 1500 mi/year or 10%.
- Our annual overall fuel expense for the year has dropped by about $120. (Most of that savings was due to not driving the cars as much.)
- Our overall fuel expense per mile INCREASED from 5.4c/mile to 5.8c/mile. (Even though we increased the miles with the LEAF, we decreased the miles on the Honda and increased miles drive in the big van. The miles on the big van tend to dominate cost/mile.)
- We put significantly fewer miles on the Honda, mainly because it did not get used for any long trips during this period. Interestingly, I recently set a new efficiency record for a long(-ish) trip in the Honda: 64 MPG over a 172-mile round-trip. This is pretty impressive considering the vehicle and its batteries are about 13.5 years old! (And the tires have over 60,000 miles on them and they are still in great shape! I expect to get over 100,000 miles on this set of Michelins.)

The overall picture is about to change significantly next week when we drive the E350 (towing a trailer) 2000 miles. I will try to update to see the overall annualized impact of that trip. (Note that nearly all of the trips in the E350 these are made by others who are borrowing that vehicle, including this upcoming trip. That will likely change when one of our children heads off to college next year. The E350 is our college hauler.)
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
2011 miles at purchase. 10K miles on Apr 14, 2013. 20K miles (55.7Ah) on Aug 7, 2014, 30K miles (52.0Ah) on Dec 30, 2015, 40K miles (49.8Ah) on Feb 8, 2017.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

User avatar
redLEAF
Gold Member
Posts: 1682
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 12:38 pm
Delivery Date: 23 Dec 2011
Location: Chicago, IL

Re: Today I drove my ICE Car, Do you still use your ICE car?

Fri Oct 02, 2015 10:57 am

You also have to remember that some, probably not all, of the gas savings may be due to low gas prices as well --- even in gas tax heavy IL, I've seen a pretty decent reduction in gas cost use -- haven't gone to the extent of tracking quite as bit like you have (although I do use Quicken to track all our finances; not down to mileage though!).

I've got a decent size trip coming up soon -- about 2,500 miles; will also need to bring back some big stuff so about the only EV that could handle it would perhaps be a Tesla X; we'll be taking our Touareg as I wasn't on the waiting list for it. We could also handle towing a 7,700 lb trailer but not on this trip; not the capacity of an E350 but not bad for a mid-size SUV.
2015 VW e-Golf LE (CPO - 1.2K miles!)
Pacific Blue
2012 Nissan LEAF SL (traded-in at 5 yrs; 46K miles)
Cayenne Red
(Chicago 2018?) Tesla Model 3
reserved at Highland Park, IL 3/31/16
EVSE: 10/07/11 Schneider EVlink

User avatar
RegGuheert
Posts: 5421
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:12 am
Delivery Date: 16 Mar 2012
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: Today I drove my ICE Car, Do you still use your ICE car?

Fri Mar 03, 2017 6:34 am

About 17 months have passed since I looked at vehicle usage:
RegGuheert on January 30, 2015 wrote:

Code: Select all

Vehicle                          odometer   miles/year   Efficiency   gal/year   Fuel $/year   Fuel cents/mi
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2011 Nissan LEAF                   23,397      6750        4 mi/kWh       0         $169           2.5
2003 Honda Civic Hybrid            99,610      6400       48 mi/gal     133         $333           5.2
2002 Ford E350                     68,967      1500       13 mi/gal     115         $288          19.2
1998 Plymouth Grand Voyager       102,187        00       22 mi/gal       0           $0          11.3
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fleet:                           ~294,974    14,650                     248         $790           5.4 

Assumptions:
- Electricity costs $0.10 per kWh
- Gasoline costs $2.50 per gallon
- Minivan is parked right now, but it is still alive
RegGuheert on October 2, 2015 wrote:

Code: Select all

Vehicle                          odometer   miles/year   Efficiency   gal/year   Fuel $/year   Fuel cents/mi
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2011 Nissan LEAF                   28,081      7026        4 mi/kWh       0         $211           3.0
2003 Honda Civic Hybrid           102,550      4410       48 mi/gal      92         $229           5.2
2002 Ford E350                     70,088      1700       13 mi/gal     131         $326          19.2
1998 Plymouth Grand Voyager       102,187        00       22 mi/gal       0           $0          11.3
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fleet:                           ~303,719    13,136                     223         $766           5.8 

Assumptions:
- Electricity costs $0.12 per kWh
- Gasoline costs $2.50 per gallon
- Minivan is parked right now, but it is still alive

Code: Select all

Vehicle                          odometer   miles/year   Efficiency   gal/year   Fuel $/year   Fuel cents/mi
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2011 Nissan LEAF                   40,600      8836        4 mi/kWh       0         $265           3.0
2003 Honda Civic Hybrid           114,087      8144       48 mi/gal     170         $424           5.2
2002 Ford E350                     72,678      1828       13 mi/gal     141         $353          19.2
1998 Plymouth Grand Voyager       102,187         0       22 mi/gal       0           $0          11.3
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fleet:                            329,552    18,808                     311        $1042           5.5 

Assumptions:
- Electricity costs $0.12 per kWh
- Gasoline costs $2.50 per gallon
- Minivan and maxivan are parked right now, but they are still alive
A couple of interesting observations when comparing the recent results with 17 months ago:

- Total annual miles driven has increased by about 5700 mi/year or 43%. LEAF increased by 26%. Honda increased by 85%. Ford increased by 8%.
- The mileage on the Ford E350 was due to a single long trip. Currently, that vehicles is parked.
- Our annual overall fuel expense for the year has dropped by about $275. (Most of that is due to the above-mentioned trip in the E350.)
- Our overall fuel expense per mile DECREASED from 5.8c/mile to 5.4c/mile.
- We put significantly more miles on the Honda, mainly because we used it to shuttle a student that started last fall back and forth from college. The Honda has been a great car and turns 15 years old next month. The efficiency is still quite high with the current tank registering 56 MPG. (And the tires have over 75,000 miles on them and they are still in great shape! I expect to get over 100,000 miles on this set of Michelins.)

The E350 is not driven much anymore, so the gasoline usage and expense should drop next time I report it.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
2011 miles at purchase. 10K miles on Apr 14, 2013. 20K miles (55.7Ah) on Aug 7, 2014, 30K miles (52.0Ah) on Dec 30, 2015, 40K miles (49.8Ah) on Feb 8, 2017.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

powersurge
Posts: 612
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:24 am
Delivery Date: 06 Dec 2014
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: Today I drove my ICE Car, Do you still use your ICE car?

Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:42 am

Since I got the Leaf, the ICE car stays pretty much unused in the driveway until I have a longer trip that day. That is not that often. Also, we, the family of 5 use the minivan more to go out together, which also gives the best use of the van, due to greater gas consumption.

Now that I think of it, getting the Leaf (and using it every day) is like when a person wears only shoes, and then buys sneakers... You then end up using the sneakers everyday, and the shoes don't wear out as fast, and are only used on special occasions.... LOL

SageBrush
Posts: 736
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Today I drove my ICE Car, Do you still use your ICE car?

Fri Mar 03, 2017 8:46 pm

We are a LEAF and Prius family. The LEAF is used for all the local commuting and the Prius for my 90 mile round trip to work. Both are excellent cars and serve their different functions very well, but both of us enjoy driving the LEAF more. I really cannot make up my mind whether I"ll replace the Prius with a Prius Prime or a Tesla 3. My ever so practical wife votes Prius Prime for a couple of reasons:
    Known to be reliable, and I am familiar with the car
    Cheaper to buy, cheaper to insure. Much cheaper to repair
    No Tesla mechanics within 250 miles
Environmentally, the Prime is a much better choice than the Tesla because I live in coal country.

So that should do it ... but I'm still waffling for two reasons:
    EV driving is just more pleasant, and the Tesla is the safest car on the road for my use case.
    I want to support Tesla in general, and particularly during this age of trumpism
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

LeftieBiker
Posts: 6300
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Today I drove my ICE Car, Do you still use your ICE car?

Fri Mar 03, 2017 9:45 pm

Environmentally, the Prime is a much better choice than the Tesla because I live in coal country.


It's probably more like a wash. Even coal-powered (via the grid) EVs are cleaner to run than typical ICEs. The Prime gets better fuel economy than the regular Prius, but that's because it uses electricity. OTOH, with money saved by getting the Prime, you could get rooftop solar...
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

SageBrush
Posts: 736
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Today I drove my ICE Car, Do you still use your ICE car?

Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:12 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Environmentally, the Prime is a much better choice than the Tesla because I live in coal country.


It's probably more like a wash. Even coal-powered (via the grid) EVs are cleaner to run than typical ICEs. The Prime gets better fuel economy than the regular Prius, but that's because it uses electricity. OTOH, with money saved by getting the Prime, you could get rooftop solar...
My solar panels arrived yesterday (Yay!!) and are going up next week. They are also besides the point.

Pollution comes in a couple of flavors:
Nox: Coal emissions are vastly higher than Prime tailpipe
Sox: Coal emissions are vastly higher than Prime tailpipe
CO2:
    Well to Wheel for shale petroleum is about 25 pounds per gallon, so about 0.45 lbs per mile for the Prime in HV mode at 55 MPG.
    Coal is about 2.2 lbs per kWh generated. 7% of energy is wasted in transmission and about 15% wasted from the wall to the battery. Presuming the Tesla 3 on-road efficiency is 4 miles per kWh, this works out to 2.2 / (4*0.93*0.85) = 0.7 pounds per mile.
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

Phatcat73
Posts: 417
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:44 pm
Leaf Number: 401511
Location: Buffalo Grove, Il

Re: Today I drove my ICE Car, Do you still use your ICE car?

Sat Mar 04, 2017 5:36 am

Why consider the Prius prime vs the volt?
2016 SV; purchased 20-Jan-17, <5k, 98% SOH; 01-Apr-17
2013 SV; purchased 6-March-13 44k, 81% SOH; 3-Apr-17
2015 S; purchased 29-July-14, moved to AZ Nov-2014, 19k, 83% SOH; 30-Mar-17
(LD storage) 2009 Ford Escape Hybrid 4x2), 101k

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