GRA
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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:10 pm

EVDRIVER wrote:A change we all knew was on the way even though everyone freaked out before about it. There will be many changes over time all planned and anticipated yet people will rant that it's a bad design based on what they see now. There are a bunch of new features on the way. something that is actually possible on a car like this and inflexible on others.

The need for such a capability was obvious before the car ever entered the market, so why did it need to be added? Every car with Cruise Control for the past 30+ years has been able to adjust the CC speed by tapping a lever or button without needing to take your hands off the steering wheel or your eyes off the road. Why on earth would anyone at Tesla feel that forcing the driver to do both simultaneously is acceptable or safe, unless the car is capable of safely driving itself during that time, something Tesla explicitly denies? Stupid design is stupid design, and the fact that they can fix it later doesn't excuse them.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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EVDRIVER
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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:57 pm

GRA wrote:
EVDRIVER wrote:A change we all knew was on the way even though everyone freaked out before about it. There will be many changes over time all planned and anticipated yet people will rant that it's a bad design based on what they see now. There are a bunch of new features on the way. something that is actually possible on a car like this and inflexible on others.

The need for such a capability was obvious before the car ever entered the market, so why did it need to be added? Every car with Cruise Control for the past 30+ years has been able to adjust the CC speed by tapping a lever or button without needing to take your hands off the steering wheel or your eyes off the road. Why on earth would anyone at Tesla feel that forcing the driver to do both simultaneously is acceptable or safe, unless the car is capable of safely driving itself during that time, something Tesla explicitly denies? Stupid design is stupid design, and the fact that they can fix it later doesn't excuse them.


It was on the screen they just added it to the wheel. Same reason other features were added later, prob dev time or usability testing. The speed is also pre set relative I believe. Never had an issue with mine and I fully expected the wheel to be added, possibly even voice in the future which would be great. Lot's of hysteria for nothing on this and other features.

GRA
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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:15 pm

EVDRIVER wrote:
GRA wrote:
EVDRIVER wrote:A change we all knew was on the way even though everyone freaked out before about it. There will be many changes over time all planned and anticipated yet people will rant that it's a bad design based on what they see now. There are a bunch of new features on the way. something that is actually possible on a car like this and inflexible on others.

The need for such a capability was obvious before the car ever entered the market, so why did it need to be added? Every car with Cruise Control for the past 30+ years has been able to adjust the CC speed by tapping a lever or button without needing to take your hands off the steering wheel or your eyes off the road. Why on earth would anyone at Tesla feel that forcing the driver to do both simultaneously is acceptable or safe, unless the car is capable of safely driving itself during that time, something Tesla explicitly denies? Stupid design is stupid design, and the fact that they can fix it later doesn't excuse them.

It was o the screen they just added it to the wheel. Same reason other features were added.
I know it was on the screen - that was the problem. It didn't and doesn't belong there unless the car is self-driving, and Tesla is willing to accept the responsibility for any accidents while the driver isn't looking at the road/holding the wheel as they adjust the set speed. As I said, stupid design decision, IMO based on the desire to be high-tech rather than to be easy and safe to use.

They've now corrected that particular issue, but why should owners have to point out the obvious to Tesla? Did no one at Tesla drive the car on a public road before it was released to customers? Of course not, yet they decided to release it with a serious safety issue - taking your eyes off the road and a hand off the wheel decreases safety, but Tesla insisted that drivers do so (while also insisting that the driver had to be ready to resume control at all times, which requires constant monitoring of the road).

You don't have to be a Tesla hater to criticize when criticism is earned, and they've earned it here, just as they have for QC issues and exaggerated claims.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:21 pm

Point is everyone knew it would be on the wheel it was just delayed, and Tesla always planned to put it on the wheel, that I know as a fact. Don't assume it was put there form people complaining. There are a few other things to be added as well and not because of complaints but development and testing. Where do you get this info that the cars were never tested with this feature, this is utter BS, there are cars with features people are not even aware of yet with tens of thousands of test miles. Not sure where you are getting this information. I know people that have driven test cars with some features in testing before they were even complained about being missing. Do people think Tesla designers and engineers are clueless? That they have never used AP cars themselves and never considered using the steering wheel controls for this feature? That's laughable. It's like saying AP would never work at all because first release S cars had it disabled and they were too stupid to make it work on the new hardware, I heard that one many times as well.

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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:33 pm

EVDRIVER wrote:Point is everyone knew it would be on the wheel it was just delayed, and Tesal always planned to put it on the wheel, that I know as a fact. Don't assume it was put there form people complaining. There are a few other things to be added as well and not because of complaints but development and testing.

And the point is it should never have been released without it. This shouldn't have been a subject of development and test - every manufacturer has known for decades that CC speed adjustment needs to be where the driver can access it while keeping their eyes on the road and hands on the wheel. Somehow Tesla knew without the need to develop and test that the driver needs to be able to adjust power with the same caveats through use of an accelerator pedal or some other lever, or should we be thankful that they didn't put that function on the touchscreen initially as well, even though they always planned to put it on the wheel at some later point? Or did they only do it because there was some government reg that forced them to?
Last edited by GRA on Wed Apr 04, 2018 6:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:34 pm

GRA wrote:
EVDRIVER wrote:Point is everyone knew it would be on the wheel it was just delayed, and Tesal always planned to put it on the wheel, that I know as a fact. Don't assume it was put there form people complaining. There are a few other things to be added as well and not because of complaints but development and testing.

And the point is it should never have been released without it. This shouldn't have been a subject of development and test - every manufacturer has known that CC speed adjustment needs to be where the driver can access it while keeping their eyes on the road and hands on the wheel, for decades. Somehow Tesla knew without the need to develop and test that the driver needs to be able to adjust power with the same caveats through use of an accelerator pedal or some over lever, or should we be thankful that they didn't put that function on the touchscreen initially as well, even though they always planned to put it on the wheel at some later point?


Yea, they should have held all the car deliveries. Now you know why Nissan is so slow to build new versions of the LEAF.

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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:38 pm

EVDRIVER wrote:
GRA wrote:
EVDRIVER wrote:Point is everyone knew it would be on the wheel it was just delayed, and Tesal always planned to put it on the wheel, that I know as a fact. Don't assume it was put there form people complaining. There are a few other things to be added as well and not because of complaints but development and testing.

And the point is it should never have been released without it. This shouldn't have been a subject of development and test - every manufacturer has known that CC speed adjustment needs to be where the driver can access it while keeping their eyes on the road and hands on the wheel, for decades. Somehow Tesla knew without the need to develop and test that the driver needs to be able to adjust power with the same caveats through use of an accelerator pedal or some over lever, or should we be thankful that they didn't put that function on the touchscreen initially as well, even though they always planned to put it on the wheel at some later point?

Yea, they should have held all the car deliveries. Now you know why Nissan is so slow to build new versions of the LEAF.

Yes, they should have, for a basic safety issue that was hardly new, and should have been designed in from the start without another thought. One does wonder just how much time they spent designing and developing the touchscreen while ignoring less sexy subjects.
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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:41 pm

GRA wrote:
EVDRIVER wrote:
GRA wrote:And the point is it should never have been released without it. This shouldn't have been a subject of development and test - every manufacturer has known that CC speed adjustment needs to be where the driver can access it while keeping their eyes on the road and hands on the wheel, for decades. Somehow Tesla knew without the need to develop and test that the driver needs to be able to adjust power with the same caveats through use of an accelerator pedal or some over lever, or should we be thankful that they didn't put that function on the touchscreen initially as well, even though they always planned to put it on the wheel at some later point?

Yea, they should have held all the car deliveries. Now you know why Nissan is so slow to build new versions of the LEAF.

Yes, they should have, for a basic safety issue that was hardly new, and should have been designed in from the start without another thought. One does wonder just how much time they spent designing and developing the touchscreen while ignoring less sexy subjects.


Seems like it was a disaster primarily for non-owners.

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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:48 pm

EVDRIVER wrote:
GRA wrote:
EVDRIVER wrote:Yea, they should have held all the car deliveries. Now you know why Nissan is so slow to build new versions of the LEAF.

Yes, they should have, for a basic safety issue that was hardly new, and should have been designed in from the start without another thought. One does wonder just how much time they spent designing and developing the touchscreen while ignoring less sexy subjects.

Seems like it was a disaster primarily for non-owners.

If they were hit by someone in a Model 3 who was busy adjusting the CC on the touchscreen, it would be, as it would be for owners who got into accidents for the same reason. We can hope that owing to the relatively small number of cars out there it didn't cause any accidents, but it undoubtedly would have given time and numbers.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:58 am

I think they should have included the AP stalk in the 3, the way they have it in the S and X. It would have made the CC adjustment the same. I really suspect the reason they didn't include the stalk is because avoiding switches and controls avoid wiring and thus saves cost, and the entire dashboard design of the 3 was to cut as must cost as possible.
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