edatoakrun
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Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Wed Jul 06, 2016 11:54 am

Maybe we should give Tesla's autopilot semi-autonomous feature its own thread?

And stop posting on other threads, including:

Autonomous driving LEAF, and the implications for BEVs.

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=10233&start=210

LAT reports on the legal implications of the first autopilot fatality last week:

Tesla's 'autopilot mode' puts it at risk for liability in crashes

By rolling out self-driving technology to consumers more aggressively than its competitors, Tesla Motors secured a spot in the forefront of a coming industry.

But that strategy could expose the company to a risk it has sought to avoid: liability in crashes.

Tesla in 2015 activated its autopilot mode, which automates steering, braking and lane switching. Tesla asserts the technology doesn’t shift blame for accidents from the driver to the company.

But Google, Zoox and other firms seeking to develop autonomous driving software say it’s dangerous to expect people in the driver’s seat to exercise any responsibility. Drivers get lulled into acting like passengers after a few minutes of the car doing most of the work, the companies say, so relying on them to suddenly brake when their cars fail to spot a hazard isn’t a safe bet...

Such a concern could undermine Tesla, whose autopilot feature is central to a fatal-accident investigation launched last week by federal regulators...

If the accident happened because the software was inadequate (because it couldn’t spot the white vehicle on a light backdrop) and proper testing would have found the flaw, Tesla could be on the hook, said Jon Tisdale, a general partner in Gilbert, Kelly, Crowley & Jennett’s Los Angeles office...

Brown’s family has said through attorneys that they hope lessons from his crash “will trigger further innovation which enhances the safety of everyone on the roadways.”

A decision on whether to file a lawsuit isn’t likely until the federal inquiry is completed, and the family’s focus remains on mourning, the attorneys said.

http://www.latimes.com/business/technol ... story.html
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2k1Toaster
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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Wed Jul 06, 2016 1:29 pm

Tesla specifically stated long before this, that this type of accident was possible. They also make sure people approve the use of a beta version of software. If you want to go to sleep, fine. But if you die, it's your own fault.

I hope Americans don't kill this new tech by over litigating personal responsibilities. Sometimes it is not someone else's fault no matter how much you want it to be.
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dm33
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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Wed Jul 06, 2016 1:35 pm

2k1Toaster wrote:Tesla specifically stated long before this, that this type of accident was possible. They also make sure people approve the use of a beta version of software. If you want to go to sleep, fine. But if you die, it's your own fault.

I hope Americans don't kill this new tech by over litigating personal responsibilities. Sometimes it is not someone else's fault no matter how much you want it to be.

I hope companies don't oversell technical capabilities before they're ready so that people don't put themselves at risk by being lulled into believing technology is more capable than it is. Doing so risks stalling progress on those technical capabilities because people will become scared of them.

2k1Toaster
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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Wed Jul 06, 2016 1:49 pm

dm33 wrote:
2k1Toaster wrote:Tesla specifically stated long before this, that this type of accident was possible. They also make sure people approve the use of a beta version of software. If you want to go to sleep, fine. But if you die, it's your own fault.

I hope Americans don't kill this new tech by over litigating personal responsibilities. Sometimes it is not someone else's fault no matter how much you want it to be.

I hope companies don't oversell technical capabilities before they're ready so that people don't put themselves at risk by being lulled into believing technology is more capable than it is. Doing so risks stalling progress on those technical capabilities because people will become scared of them.


They didn't oversell anything. They clearly say that you as the driver must drive. Hands on the wheel at all times and ready to take over at all times. How much more clear can they be?

We need to stop protecting stupid.
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edatoakrun
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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Thu Jul 07, 2016 6:41 am


Feds investigate Autopilot usage in second recent Tesla crash


U.S. auto-safety regulators are scrutinizing the Pennsylvania crash of a Tesla Motors Inc. Model X to determine whether the sport-utility vehicle’s Autopilot system was in use, days after starting a formal probe of the Silicon Valley company’s technology.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration is “collecting information” from the electric-car maker, state police and the driver of the Model X about the July 1 crash, the agency said in a statement Wednesday. Regulators are attempting to “determine whether automated functions were in use at the time of the crash,” the agency said.

Tesla TSLA, +0.20% said it doesn’t currently believe Autopilot was being used at the time of the crash. The Palo Alto, Calif., auto maker said it hasn’t been able to reach the driver and hasn’t received data about the state of the vehicle’s controls before the collision, possibly because of a damaged antenna.

The Detroit Free Press reported that the Tesla SUV hit a guardrail and then crashed into a concrete median before rolling on its roof on the Pennsylvania Turnpike more than 100 miles east of Pittsburgh. The driver and passenger survived the crash, the newspaper reported...

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/feds-i ... 2016-07-06
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Zythryn
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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Thu Jul 07, 2016 6:56 am

Motor Trend recently did a comparison of a number of these driver assist packages.
Quite detailed, and lots of quantifiable data, pretty good read.

http://www.motortrend.com/news/testing- ... -mercedes/
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abasile
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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Thu Jul 07, 2016 7:41 am

Currently, the biggest "problem" with Tesla's AutoPilot, as evidenced by that Motor Trend comparison, is that it's so much better than competing manufacturers' systems. The other OEMs will have the same "problem" as their tech improves.

The issue is that many AutoPilot users disengage themselves from driving, thus leaving themselves at the mercy of a system that's still far from perfect. Sure, AutoPilot isn't "supposed" to be used this way, but unfortunately we know that it is.

Arguably, though, this is not much of issue if the use of AutoPilot results in lower accident and fatality rates than not using it. I haven't seen sufficient data to come to a conclusion here. It seems that while AutoPilot is in some key areas not as capable as a human driver in a qualitative sense, the system on the other hand does not become drowsy, distracted, or fatigued. It's also improving with time.

Given how quickly this technology is evolving, I hope that our federal regulators maintain a light touch, at least for now.
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RegGuheert
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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Thu Jul 07, 2016 9:04 am

abasile wrote:Currently, the biggest "problem" with Tesla's AutoPilot, as evidenced by that Motor Trend comparison, is that it's so much better than competing manufacturers' systems. The other OEMs will have the same "problem" as their tech improves.

The issue is that many AutoPilot users disengage themselves from driving, thus leaving themselves at the mercy of a system that's still far from perfect. Sure, AutoPilot isn't "supposed" to be used this way, but unfortunately we know that it is.
This LA Times article puts it very well:
LA Times wrote:The problem with level 2, critics say, is that it’s just autonomous enough to give drivers the false sense that the vehicle can drive itself, which can lead to careless behavior.
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edatoakrun
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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Fri Jul 08, 2016 9:10 am

Less-than-complimentary report on how TSLA is handling its PR response to questions of autopilot safety:

Elon Musk Twitter rant a 'case study' in how not to handle a crisis, experts say

Tesla’s behaviour in the aftermath of news that a driver died while using the car’s autopilot feature criticised by crisis management experts as ‘error-filled’

Joshua Brown was killed in Florida in May after neither he nor the car’s autopilot system detected a truck crossing the highway ahead of him...

Jonathan Bernstein, president of the consulting firm Bernstein Crisis Management, said Musk’s behaviour was a perfect case study in the wrong way to handle this sort of crisis.

“What a CEO should do when there’s a death associated with one of his company’s products is respond, first and foremost, with compassion, and then with words that express competence and confidence,” Bernstein said.

“Musk seems to prefer angry defensiveness.”

“Quoting statistics that explain why the death isn’t so bad in the big picture has been proven time and time again to be quite ineffective in influencing public opinion,” he added...

According to Bernstein, resorting – as Musk did – to statistics to try to put an accident or malfunction which resulted in a death into a wider context, however well-meaning, was ill-judged. “I haven’t seen anybody foolish enough to try the statistics approach in a long time,” he said.

Asked what advice he would give to Musk, Bernstein said that he should “take a step back, take a deep breath, and practice delivering a message that communicates compassion, confidence, and competence”.

“And if you can’t do that, keep your mouth shut,” he added.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... are_btn_tw
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GRA
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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Fri Jul 08, 2016 4:02 pm

GCR article, which I generally agree with. I just wish we could trust all drivers to behave in similar fashion to the article's author (Joshua Brown obviously didn't):
Tesla Autopilot crash: what one Model S owner has to say
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/110 ... has-to-say

Personally, while I'd want any new car I'd buy to have AEB, until far better autonomy is available I wouldn't want auto lane keeping, and I've even become a bit less enthusiastic over ACC. I use conventional cruise control regularly, but I know that if I stop paying attention I'll rear end anyone I overtake in the same lane, and that knowledge (along with needing to steer) keeps me mentally engaged so that I can tweak the speed or cancel cruise as necessary.

If I had ACC, my attention might wander a bit, as I'd expect the car to not plow into the person in front of me, as it had correctly prevented that from happening the previous 1,000 times. But what if this instance is the exception to the rule, and I have to be the one to recognize the situation and take over at short notice? If the car allows a great enough following distance to be selected, I'd probably have enough time to get my head fully back into the game, assess the situation and act appropriately, but if it doesn't, I may be eating someone's bumper - that's the insidious problem that arises with systems that work in 'most' situations, 'most' of the time.
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