pchilds
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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:08 am

GRA wrote:<span>There certainly needs to be a prominent mention in the owner's manual that the auto-braking system is incapable of detecting cross-traffic, and is only suitable for use for vehicles you're traveling behind. <a href="http://www.myelectriccarforums.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=67" class="interlinkr">Tesla<span class="tip">Visit the Tesla Forum</span></a> knew that, but didn't seem to think it was necessary to inform its customers of that significant limitation, while allowing the cars to use Autoplilot on highways where cross-traffic will be encountered (<a href="http://www.myelectriccarforums.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=67" class="interlinkr">Tesla<span class="tip">Visit the Tesla Forum</span></a> can't plead ignorance to the location of every limited-access freeway in the U.S.). I'd call that a certain loss in court.</span>


All AEB systems at the time had that limitation. These systems are to make the car safer, not a replacement for the driver.
2011 LEAF, gone,
2012 RAV4 EV,
2015 Model S 85D,
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GRA
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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Mon Jan 30, 2017 6:05 pm

pchilds wrote:
GRA wrote:<span>There certainly needs to be a prominent mention in the owner's manual that the auto-braking system is incapable of detecting cross-traffic, and is only suitable for use for vehicles you're traveling behind. <a href="http://www.myelectriccarforums.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=67" class="interlinkr">Tesla<span class="tip">Visit the Tesla Forum</span></a> knew that, but didn't seem to think it was necessary to inform its customers of that significant limitation, while allowing the cars to use Autoplilot on highways where cross-traffic will be encountered (<a href="http://www.myelectriccarforums.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=67" class="interlinkr">Tesla<span class="tip">Visit the Tesla Forum</span></a> can't plead ignorance to the location of every limited-access freeway in the U.S.). I'd call that a certain loss in court.</span>

All AEB systems at the time had that limitation. These systems are to make the car safer, not a replacement for the driver.

None of which relieves the company(ies) of the requirement to explictly inform the driver about a known major system safety limitation, nor does it provide legal cover for allowing that system to be used in situations it's known to be incapable of handling.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

edatoakrun
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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Mon Feb 27, 2017 8:10 am

TESLA Autopilot 2.0 - FW 17.7.2 Fail


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYav3_7 ... e=youtu.be
no condition is permanent

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RegGuheert
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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Mon Feb 27, 2017 9:11 am

edatoakrun wrote:
TESLA Autopilot 2.0 - FW 17.7.2 Fail


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYav3_7 ... e=youtu.be
It seems Tesla feels that the double-yellow line in the middle of the road is completely optional. Here's another video on FW 17.7.2, this time in daylight:



There is a real issue with over-the-air updates in the case where Tesla owners have developed a trust in the abilities of Autopilot and an OTA update introduces regression into the system that creates a severe safety issue that the driver does not expect. It seems the quality control at Tesla is sorely lacking if this version of firmware was allowed to make it out to customers' vehicles.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K miles: Apr 14, 2013, 20K miles (55.7Ah): Aug 7, 2014, 30K miles (52.0Ah): Dec 30, 2015, 40K miles (49.8Ah): Feb 8, 2017, 50K miles (47.2Ah): Dec 7, 2017.
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DanCar
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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Mon Feb 27, 2017 4:03 pm

RegGuheert wrote:
edatoakrun wrote:
TESLA Autopilot 2.0 - FW 17.7.2 Fail


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYav3_7 ... e=youtu.be
It seems Tesla feels that the double-yellow line in the middle of the road is completely optional. Here's another video on FW 17.7.2, this time in daylight:



There is a real issue with over-the-air updates in the case where Tesla owners have developed a trust in the abilities of Autopilot and an OTA update introduces regression into the system that creates a severe safety issue that the driver does not expect. It seems the quality control at Tesla is sorely lacking if this version of firmware was allowed to make it out to customers' vehicles.
I was under the impression that this is autopilot 2 hardware and shouldn't be compared to autopilot one hardware for the purposes of determining a regression.

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RegGuheert
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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Mon Feb 27, 2017 4:24 pm

DanCar wrote:I was under the impression that this is autopilot 2 hardware and shouldn't be compared to autopilot one hardware for the purposes of determining a regression.
Perhaps you are correct, but that doesn't explain why the driver in the video was focusing on the firmware version rather than the hardware version.

Is Autopilot 2 the result of a "cost take-out" exercise when compared with Autopilot 1?
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
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Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

Zythryn
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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Mon Feb 27, 2017 5:12 pm

RegGuheert wrote:
DanCar wrote:I was under the impression that this is autopilot 2 hardware and shouldn't be compared to autopilot one hardware for the purposes of determining a regression.
Perhaps you are correct, but that doesn't explain why the driver in the video was focusing on the firmware version rather than the hardware version.

Is Autopilot 2 the result of a "cost take-out" exercise when compared with Autopilot 1?


Autopilot 2 is much beefier, in terms of hardware.
The software started from scratch though, so it has yet to catch up with AP1.
Eventually it will equal AP1 and continue past it to 'full autonomy'.
Previous owner of Prius, Volt & Leaf
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DanCar
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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:28 pm

The story of autopilot 1 to autopilot 2 hardware is full of drama and worthy of a Hollywood movie. :D
Mobileye out of Israel has been a leader in driver assist systems. Tesla took their lane keep assist system and decided it could do more, self drive. Mobileye was uncomfortable with this. Then Joshua Brown died and Mobileye was very unhappy and decided not to renew the sales contract with Tesla. Probably at urging of other companies that didn't like competing with Tesla, like VW.

Tesla needed a solution quick and the only thing with enough horsepower was the Nivida drive PX 2 system. The nvidia system costs five times more than mobileyes lane keep assist system. Mobileye's eyeq3 chip is a specialized chip designed for just this task. Nvidia's system is a bunch of GPU's that happens to run machine learning models well.

As Zythryn said, the software for nVidia is recent while Mobileye's system has 10 years of experience. Anyone in the industry with knowledge of the situation is thinking that Elon's time lines for hardware 2 are incredible.

There are a bunch of specialized AI hardware coming to market, and I wouldn't be surprised if Elon switched away from Nvidia for more specialized hardware by the end of the year. Cost savings over nVidia would be substantial. Perhaps we will see this in the Model 3. An example are products from movidius.
Last edited by DanCar on Tue Mar 07, 2017 5:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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RegGuheert
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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Thu Mar 02, 2017 4:47 pm

Electrek has dashcam video of a Tesla Model S driving directly into a Jersey barrier. This was with Autopilot hardware version 1.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K miles: Apr 14, 2013, 20K miles (55.7Ah): Aug 7, 2014, 30K miles (52.0Ah): Dec 30, 2015, 40K miles (49.8Ah): Feb 8, 2017, 50K miles (47.2Ah): Dec 7, 2017.
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pchilds
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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Thu Mar 02, 2017 5:06 pm

Another driver not doing his job. You need to be prepared to take control.
2011 LEAF, gone,
2012 RAV4 EV,
2015 Model S 85D,
Solar PV 5.25 kW system.

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