rmay635703
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Re: Does Trump's Election Spell the End for Federal EV Subsidies?

Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:40 am

There are 5000 evs and some change in the entire state of Wisconsin,

Each area of the country is different

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LTLFTcomposite
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Re: Does Trump's Election Spell the End for Federal EV Subsidies?

Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:54 am

WetEV wrote:
LTLFTcomposite wrote:We've had the $7500 subsidy around for six years now and plugin vehicles are like 0.000000001% of the fleet. Good jahwb.


Might want to find the real number, rather than a truthiness made up number. Facts matter.

"It used to be, everyone was entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts. But that's not the case anymore. Facts matter not at all. Perception is everything." Stephen Colbert


OK, I exaggerated.

0.00197

Would you and Mr. Colbert be OK if we just round it off to to zero?
LTL
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Re: Does Trump's Election Spell the End for Federal EV Subsidies?

Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:31 am

LTLFTcomposite wrote:OK, I exaggerated.


Thank you.
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Re: Does Trump's Election Spell the End for Federal EV Subsidies?

Mon Nov 21, 2016 5:39 pm

LTLFTcomposite wrote:
WetEV wrote:
LTLFTcomposite wrote:We've had the $7500 subsidy around for six years now and plugin vehicles are like 0.000000001% of the fleet. Good jahwb.


Might want to find the real number, rather than a truthiness made up number. Facts matter.

"It used to be, everyone was entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts. But that's not the case anymore. Facts matter not at all. Perception is everything." Stephen Colbert


OK, I exaggerated.

0.00197

Would you and Mr. Colbert be OK if we just round it off to to zero?

I get 0.00199203187 using 500,000/251,000,000, or just a smidgen under 2/10ths of a % :D Pretty insignificant after almost six years. This year, U.S. sales of PEVs are running around 0.7% nationally, IIRR. I expect a small spike when the Bolt and Prius Prime arrive, but who knows if it will sustain once the initial surge tapers off. OTOH, OPEC is saying that this time they really mean it, they're going to cap production, so that might boost oil prices for a while and make EVs a better value, at least until frackers can ramp back up.
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Re: Does Trump's Election Spell the End for Federal EV Subsidies?

Mon Nov 21, 2016 8:26 pm

Some monster find in Texas was announced, so don't expect much help from higher fuel prices. Affordable 200+ mile range could be interesting, but I would refrain from using the words "game changer". Bolt/GM lacks Tesla's common sense charging network, so expect that to be the next excuse, along with the inability to tow a 30' boat :lol:

Bottom line most people aren't going to buy a car they don't want just because you put $7500 on the hood, particularly when that barely offsets the higher price relative to a comparable ICE.
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Re: Does Trump's Election Spell the End for Federal EV Subsidies?

Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:25 am

With Trump now explicitly promising that for every new regulation passed, two existing ones have to be removed, I am less and less hopeful that I will lose my bet with Dan.
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Re: Does Trump's Election Spell the End for Federal EV Subsidies?

Tue Nov 22, 2016 7:06 am

As a whole I agree with LTL that for the average person, the $7500 won't make a big difference in terms of buyers, especially for single vehicle households. However, for those who are in more metro areas, where the $7500 credit comes into play the best is on leases, as it gets the amount due at signing and the monthly payments down usually in the $200/mo range.

Tesla won't be able to tap into these credits after 2017 at the same rate, as they will taper down once certain sales amounts have been reached (200,000). The sad thing about that is, for a Tesla owner, all that $7500 did was allow them to buy additional features, instead of actually being an EV purchase enabler. I personally think that the credit should only apply to vehicles under a certain dollar amount, say $50,000.

The $7500 credit is also a bit of a sham in a way for buyers, as it means instead of the traditional 15%(or so) residual loss that occurs when you drive it off the lot, you can slap an additional $7500 on top of that. That, (combined with battery issues), is among the reasons why Nissan Leafs have such terrible residual/resale values. I mean, how else could I buy a 4 year old car that sold for $37,000 new, and get it for $6,000 when it's in terrific shape? If you add in that $7500 it makes it a $13,000 car which is closer to what I would expect for a vehicle of this age in this condition that had such a starting price.

The upshot of that terribly low residual price is that there are a lot of people who are buying these ultra-cheap Leafs and using them as their commuter vehicles. That's great, in my opinion, but it doesn't really help the original purchaser unless they were doing a lease, or plan on driving the car into the ground and never selling it.

But here's a positive spin on the tax credit thing, if they're eliminated by Congress, people can claim that they raised taxes, which is certainly the antithesis to the Rep platform.

For me, I just plan on touting EVs as much as possible, by giving people rides in it, letting them feel the smoothness, hear the relative quiet, and then tout the fuel savings. I say that once you've gone EV, you don't want to go back to an ICE. (Which on the topic, LTL, are your ICE vehicles holding you over until you can get a 200+ mile EV?)
Pulled the trigger on going EV on 10/2016 with a 2012 Leaf, and a Tesla Model 3 reservation expected to receive in June 2018.

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Re: Does Trump's Election Spell the End for Federal EV Subsidies?

Tue Nov 22, 2016 11:05 am

Donald already betraying the right. http://thehill.com/policy/national-secu ... ation-into
Right expresses betrayal as Trump backs off Clinton probe

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Re: Does Trump's Election Spell the End for Federal EV Subsidies?

Tue Nov 22, 2016 12:06 pm

LTLFTcomposite wrote:Some monster find in Texas was announced, so don't expect much help from higher fuel prices. Affordable 200+ mile range could be interesting, but I would refrain from using the words "game changer". Bolt/GM lacks Tesla's common sense charging network, so expect that to be the next excuse, along with the inability to tow a 30' boat :lol:

Bottom line most people aren't going to buy a car they don't want just because you put $7500 on the hood, particularly when that barely offsets the higher price relative to a comparable ICE.



its ok. Predicting a 7.5ish Earthquake in the area and we be lucky in that only a few thousand will die...
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Re: Does Trump's Election Spell the End for Federal EV Subsidies?

Tue Nov 22, 2016 2:04 pm

Bottom line most people aren't going to buy a car they don't want just because you put $7500 on the hood, particularly when that barely offsets the higher price relative to a comparable ICE.


Some people seem to be having trouble with this, so I'll try to make it very clear. The federal EV credit doesn't make people want to buy an EV. It instead enables those with lower incomes who already want an EV to buy, or at least lease one (in which case they then get the opportunity to buy the vehicle for the residual). If you are affluent enough to scoff at the $7500, then just take my word for this, instead of scoffing because it doesn't make any difference to you, personally.
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The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

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