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Re: Guess the Monroney contest: Tesla 3 and LEAF 2 efficiency ratings

Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:59 am
by edatoakrun
edatoakrun wrote:If you want to guess, please add yours to the columns below:

Edatoakrun, 8/3/17 Tesla 3 (310 m pack) 125 MPGe City 120 MPGe Highway
Nubo, 8/6/17 Tesla 3 (310 m pack) 106 MPGe City 118 MPGe Highway
TEG, Tesla 8/8 (310 m pack) 131 MPGe City 120 MPGe Highway


Edatoakrun, 8/3/17 LEAF Gen two (base) 140 MPGe City 120 MPGe Highway
Nubo, 8/6/17 LEAF Gen two (base) 108 MPGe City 115 MPGe Highway

...

Game over for the Tesla, it appears.

A better photo of a model 3 Monroney (final or preliminary?) has now turned up, showing 131 MPGe city, 120 MPGe highway:

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... 992/page-2

TEG pegged it, but that was after he posted his blurry photo of the sticker on the thread above, so that now appears not to be a guess...exactly.

I also got 120 MPGe highway (lucky guess) before that announcement, but wasn't expecting the model 3 motor upgrade (discussed p. 1) which may be the primary reason the 3 does so much better than previous Teslas in the city MPGe rating.

Still time to guess the numbers for the LEAF, which just might be announced tonight.

Re: Guess the Monroney contest: Tesla 3 and LEAF 2 efficiency ratings

Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:37 am
by SageBrush
Ever since the partial Monroney sticker of the Model 3 showing 126 MPGe combined was known, the city and highway MPGe have been a matter of arithmetic using the EPA CSI report UDDS and Highway ratios. Like this
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/posts/2243103/

Just have to get the ratio arithmetic correct ... :oops:

Re: Guess the Monroney contest: Tesla 3 and LEAF 2 efficiency ratings

Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:07 pm
by TEG
TEG wrote:Tesla Model 3 Long Range ("310 mile")
131 City
120 Highway
126 Combined



Do I win a prize?

Image

Re: Guess the Monroney contest: Tesla 3 and LEAF 2 efficiency ratings

Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:28 am
by edatoakrun
TEG wrote:
TEG wrote:Tesla Model 3 Long Range ("310 mile")
131 City
120 Highway
126 Combined


Do I win a prize?

No prizes.

And the term guess indicates the answer is unknown to you.

Try guessing the LEAF numbers...unless you've also got a picture of its sticker?

Everyone should feel free to post that, when it shows up, ending the contest.

BTW, after last night's reveal, I think its even more likely that my LEAF guesses from ~a month ago may have been too high.

Re: Guess the Monroney contest: Tesla 3 and LEAF 2 efficiency ratings

Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:51 pm
by edatoakrun
Still no Monroney for the 2018 LEAF?

Still no more guesses?

I went off on an off-topic reply for another thread reviewing earlier MY LEAF Monroney numbers.

Since it illustrates why the MPGe numbers , IMO, should really be given more credence that the EPA-rated range, I'll post it here instead.

abasile wrote:... the 2017 LEAF is rated at 112 MPGe compared to 99 MPGe on the 2011 LEAF. That's only 13% better, but still significant. Much of that comes from having a more efficient charging system, of course...

Gen one LEAF efficiency rating peaked with the 2013 MY, at 115 MPGEe.

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do ... 4&id=30979

The more efficient charging system explanation for the large MY 2013 MPGe increase became entrenched after a well-known (but unfortunately, incompetent) LEAF range-tester claimed there was no increased range from the 2013 MY LEAF.

IMO, the myth is conclusively debunked by EPA MY certification reports, which were unavailable ~five years ago.

It seems fairly clear that the ~16% MPGe increase in the 2013 MY was largely due to the multiple improvements in lower aero resistance, and increased drive train, regen and braking efficiency.

It looks like only a few percent of the efficiency gain could have been from the more-efficient higher kW 240 v charge cycle.

The large actual range increases (not shown by the EPA rating on the window sticker) was also due in part to an increase in actual battery capacity, from 2012 to 2013 MY, as confirmed by AVTA tests.

2012 MY:

https://iaspub.epa.gov/otaqpub/display_ ... 807&flag=1

2013 MY:

https://iaspub.epa.gov/otaqpub/display_ ... 931&flag=1

Note the much longer range of the 2013 MY in both highway and the city cycle, and only a slight increase in AC energy used to recharge the same "24 kWh" (Nissan-spec) pack.

Since 2013 MY slightly higher charge cycle efficiency is more than offset by higher available capacity, it actually took a few hundred more AC Wh to recharge the 2013 MY after full discharges, than the 2012 MY.

Re: Guess the Monroney contest: Tesla 3 and LEAF 2 efficiency ratings

Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:01 pm
by edatoakrun
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do ... 2&id=39641

2018 MY BEV economy and range ratings have begun to be posted.

Hyundai Ioniq and Ford Focus E unchanged from 2017.

2018 Kia Soul shows slightly higher efficiency, and much higher 111 mile combined range from the new "30 kWh" (available?) pack.

2018 LEAF not posted yet, and, oddly neither is any MY Tesla model 3...

New BEV list:

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/PowerSe ... owLimit=10

Re: Guess the Monroney contest: Tesla 3 and LEAF 2 efficiency ratings

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:30 pm
by edatoakrun
Otherwise insipid comparison test by MT, posts its own estimate for LEAF efficiency.

THE AUTOMOBILE 2.0: CHEVROLET BOLT EV VS NISSAN LEAF VS TESLA MODEL 3 LONG RANGE

The first comparison test of the practical electric car


...(LEAF) 130/106/118 mpg-e (est)...

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/tesla/mo ... ong-range/

Re: Guess the Monroney contest: Tesla 3 and LEAF 2 efficiency ratings

Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:55 am
by DaveinOlyWA
Anyone taking bets that Tesla range and efficiency is overstated?

Re: Guess the Monroney contest: Tesla 3 and LEAF 2 efficiency ratings

Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:37 am
by edatoakrun
DaveinOlyWA wrote:Anyone taking bets that Tesla range and efficiency is overstated?

As discussed elsewhere, TSLA has understated the range for the model 3, as compared to the actual EPA range test data below:

https://iaspub.epa.gov/otaqpub/display_ ... 792&flag=1

I doubt Nissan will do the same, and I'm guessing the EPA sticker will read somewhere between 150 and 155 miles combined range as determined by the range tests in Nissan's EPA submission, which also should soon be available at the database above.

Re: Guess the Monroney contest: Tesla 3 and LEAF 2 efficiency ratings

Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:46 am
by DaveinOlyWA
edatoakrun wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:Anyone taking bets that Tesla range and efficiency is overstated?

As discussed elsewhere, TSLA has understated the range for the model 3, as compared to the actual EPA range test data below:

https://iaspub.epa.gov/otaqpub/display_ ... 792&flag=1

I doubt Nissan will do the same, and I'm guessing the EPA sticker will read somewhere between 150 and 155 miles combined range as determined by the range tests in Nissan's EPA submission, which also should soon be available at the database above.


I meant on the 225