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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 4:36 pm
by GRA
dgpcolorado wrote:
Zythryn wrote:
Leaf15 wrote:I could not understand how anyone can enjoy 2,000 - 3,000 miles road trip in any car EV or ICE. Either way it sucks, big time! :lol:


It is glorious!
Best road trip I ever took was in a BEV.
We enjoyed the journey almost as much as the destination. I think that is the real trick, if you make the journey fun, it is wonderful. If you convince yourself the journey has to happen before the fun, it is miserable.
Just so. I look forward to my EV road trips — they are relaxing and fun. The Supercharger stops give me a chance to take a break and walk around for a bit. In an ICE car it was just push-through-to-try-to-get-it-over-with; it is a completely different feeling in an EV for me. It doesn't hurt that I am surrounded by some of the most beautiful National Parks and Monuments, as well as designated scenic roads, in the country, which makes road trips to explore them easy and well worth doing.

The difference, ISTM, is that in an ICE it's entirely up to you whether to just push through or slow down and enjoy it, as well as not constraining where you go, what route you take and where you stop and stay. The latter issues will eventually be a minimal problem as the charging infrastructure becomes more common, but only a major increase in battery capacity and charging speeds will provide anything like the flexibility of liquid-fueled ICEs. The question is how close do BEVs have to approach that point before most people will say "that's good enough"?

If I'm pushed for time (not being retired, I usually am on longer trips) I can just press on, and if I'm not, I can stop whenever and wherever I wish, and refueling the car doesn't control where I eat or stay or how long I need to do so. That's totally different from planning your stops around the limited, relatively slow (compared to liquid or gaseous refueling) and more frequently needed charging sites that are currently available. Even when pressing on, the scenery and the driving interest makes a huge difference to the level of enjoyment, which are a couple of reasons I usually opt to drive U.S. 50 instead of I-80 across Nevada (it's also shorter for trips to Colorado and southern Utah on/south of I-70). As it is, it's still impossible to do that trip in any BEV using QCs. Unlike many people here, I often do 4-5 hours (rarely 6) at a stretch on road trips without feeling like I'm a masochist, and while I have no need or wish to drive much east of I-25, what's a 1-1.5 day drive from the Bay Area in an ICE is two or more in a BEV, which is time I'd much rather spend at my destination. Of course, I could fly and rent a car, but for cost, hassle and emission reasons I don't do that anymore (except in emergencies).

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:47 am
by Leaf15
I just was surprised to learn some folks would have an audacity to brag about 2000 - 3000 trips, when they only drive 200-300 miles a day. I have a colleague at work who commute 250 miles every day. I never heard of him bragging about it. I would understand of someone to be proud of riding bicycle every day for 200-300 miles and I have colleague of mine who is retired and doing just that, not bragging about it. Thanks for making me feel like a super hero, an ultimate road warrior as I covered 2500 miles round trip on our family trip to Florida and back to Philadelphia. I drove back all 1200 miles in 15 hours as my spouse were not feeling well. I guess, I need to make ear-full everyone I meet about this heroic valor. At least, it was financially lucrative adventure as saving were in $$$$. POTUS should make a decree to make a national monument in my honor, lol. My friends are planning trip across entire US cost-to-cost as they are retired and moving to Seattle, WA, yet again they have plenty of time and would save money by driving their Honda CRV instead of transporting it and visiting tourist spots along the way as they like to travel, not to brag about it.

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:54 am
by jlv
I consider us road warriors. We regularly make 400-500 mile (one-way) trips. E.g., we were just in Buffalo this past weekend for a family event. We used to do such a trip with just a single bathroom break in the middle. Now we do that, but combine that with a stop to charge for 30 minutes. We'll walk and talk (she likes to get 12K steps in each day), or eat at one of the stops.

Of course, there are limits. We're going to Bend, OR to visit our son in June. I suggested we could drive. 30 SuperCharger stops is all that is needed!
Image
To quote A.Ham: "She looked at me like I'm stupid; I'm not stupid." :lol: To keep marital bliss, we'll fly.

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:16 pm
by dgpcolorado
Leaf15 wrote:I just was surprised to learn some folks would have an audacity to brag about 2000 - 3000 trips, when they only drive 200-300 miles a day. I have a colleague at work who commute 250 miles every day. I never heard of him bragging about it. I would understand of someone to be proud of riding bicycle every day for 200-300 miles and I have colleague of mine who is retired and doing just that, not bragging about it. Thanks for making me feel like a super hero, an ultimate road warrior as I covered 2500 miles round trip on our family trip to Florida and back to Philadelphia. I drove back all 1200 miles in 15 hours as my spouse were not feeling well. I guess, I need to make ear-full everyone I meet about this heroic valor. At least, it was financially lucrative adventure as saving were in $$$$. POTUS should make a decree to make a national monument in my honor, lol. My friends are planning trip across entire US cost-to-cost as they are retired and moving to Seattle, WA, yet again they have plenty of time and would save money by driving their Honda CRV instead of transporting it and visiting tourist spots along the way as they like to travel, not to brag about it.
:roll: Nice straw man argument there. You complain about how you can't "understand how anyone can enjoy 2,000 - 3,000 miles road trip in any car EV or ICE. Either way it sucks, big time!" And when Zythryn and I point out that we enjoy such trips you call it "bragging"? Then you make up a silly straw man number of 200-300 miles a day (Oils4AsphaultOnly mentioned up to 350 miles a day) and try to shoot it down. What rubbish. I generally do 600 miles in a day and have done as many as 950 miles. Driving alone. In an EV. And I enjoy it. Just because you (and some others here) find such trips onerous doesn't mean that everyone does.

The point I would like to make is that we can make long road trips in a Tesla, should we care to do so, and we can't in other kinds of EVs for the time being. Why you seem to take offense at such observations is a puzzle.

I purchased my Tesla (used, because I couldn't afford a new one) so that I could get rid of my last ICE car and still be able to make trips to visit family in Oregon and friends in Southern California, something I do regularly. That I have been able to use it for other kinds of road trips is a fun bonus.

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:28 am
by Leaf15
dgpcolorado wrote:[ :roll: Nice straw man argument there. You complain about how you can't "understand how anyone can enjoy 2,000 - 3,000 miles road trip in any car EV or ICE. Either way it sucks, big time!" And when Zythryn and I point out that we enjoy such trips you call it "bragging"? Then you make up a silly straw man number of 200-300 miles a day (Oils4AsphaultOnly mentioned up to 350 miles a day) and try to shoot it down. What rubbish. I generally do 600 miles in a day and have done as many as 950 miles. Driving alone. In an EV. And I enjoy it. Just because you (and some others here) find such trips onerous doesn't mean that everyone does.

The point I would like to make is that we can make long road trips in a Tesla, should we care to do so, and we can't in other kinds of EVs for the time being. Why you seem to take offense at such observations is a puzzle.

I purchased my Tesla (used, because I couldn't afford a new one) so that I could get rid of my last ICE car and still be able to make trips to visit family in Oregon and friends in Southern California, something I do regularly. That I have been able to use it for other kinds of road trips is a fun bonus.
I think you just made your straw man argument there, but at the end both ICE or EV sucks at long distance travel. Getting excited about the monotony of black top running under you car, wow, what a treat. It is just what it is. "Are we there yet?" did not just came out of "straw". Indeed, I am shaming you for bragging about something, not worse bragging about :D

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 5:11 am
by SageBrush
Leaf15 wrote: I am shaming you for bragging about something,

You see his post as 'bragging' because of your own feelings of inadequacy.

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 9:41 am
by Leaf15
SageBrush wrote:You see his post as 'bragging' because of your own feelings of inadequacy.
As opposed to adequacy of driving car on highway for long hours is as exciting as watching paint dry? Some folks are caught in the hype bubble, when they get exciting about upcoming visit to son's family because they need to use 30 charing stations? not spending all this extra time with him, this adequacy?

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:43 pm
by Leaf15
jlv wrote:You obviously didn't read *all* of my post. :cry:
I am not your adversary. It is the fact - Tesla is the only EV at the moment you can travel across USA with some assurance. There is not need to find any other "crazy" reasoning to prove long trips are possible with Tesla. It is a fact! It is also true - with fast chargers infrastructure improvements the same would be possible with all other EVs.

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:53 pm
by SageBrush
Leaf15 wrote:
jlv wrote:You obviously didn't read *all* of my post. :cry:
I am not your adversary. It is the fact - Tesla is the only EV at the moment you can travel across USA with some assurance. There is not need to find any other "crazy" reasoning to prove long trips are possible with Tesla. It is a fact! It is also true - with fast chargers infrastructure improvements the same would be possible with all other EVs.

No so.
The car has to be able to take the high power, and for long enough to make a difference.

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 3:07 pm
by lpickup
Interestingly enough, I just answered the "why don't EVs have as much range as a gas vehicle" question for the umpteenth time on Quora today. I took a bit different approach.

Starting with my driving style on a long distance trip (750-800 miles each way) each summer, using abetterrouteplanner.com I "downgraded" the car's range to the point where my travel time matched what we've done for the past 6 or so years in a gas vehicle.

As a starting point, in raw driving time, it's a 12.5 hour trip, but we take around 15 hours to complete it (i.e. 2.5 hours of stops).

My Model 3 LR can do the trip with only 1:04 in charging time (and this is BEFORE V3 comes into play!)

Model 3 MR can do it with 1:48 in stops.

Model 3 SR+ can do it with 2:10 in stops.

The Model 3 SR (estimated) can actually do it with 2:30 in stops. I was a bit surprised by this, but yes, with my driving style, a standard range Model 3 can actually do the trip without any impact to travel time (although those stops would HAVE to be at very specific Superchargers, whereas with my LR I have a lot more flexibility.