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Nubo
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Re: Verdict is in! Fracking on Trial in Texas

Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:47 am

AndyH wrote:
Nubo wrote:What a shame. I've met a number of Texans who seem downright proud of the laxity of environmental enforcement in their state.

Yup. Just as I've met Californians that lament the layers upon layers of regulation and the relatively insane price of fuel. ;)

Texas is a red state because of Gerrymandering. This, too, shall be overcome.


Yeah I suppose I shouldn't form an opinion on Texas culture based on a small sample. Are they really a blue state by percentage?

As for the price of gasoline, some people do freak out. We Americans are very sensitive to the price of gasoline. People will deliberately drive miles out of their way to save $2 on a tank of gasoline, and then spend $4 on a coffee. The small savings makes them feel like they're not getting ripped off. It's a massive sentiment that will sooner or late cause EV sales to flash over. The satisfaction of driving past any and all gas stations is several magnitudes greater than saving a trifling dime on a $4 gallon of gas.
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

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evnow
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Re: Verdict is in! Fracking on Trial in Texas

Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:48 pm

AndyH wrote:Texas is a red state because of Gerrymandering. This, too, shall be overcome.

Gerrymandering doesn't change presidential election results.

But yes, in a couple of cycles, TX will indeed be a pink state.
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AndyH
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Re: Verdict is in! Fracking on Trial in Texas

Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:37 pm

evnow wrote:
AndyH wrote:Texas is a red state because of Gerrymandering. This, too, shall be overcome.

Gerrymandering doesn't change presidential election results.

But yes, in a couple of cycles, TX will indeed be a pink state.

On the presidential side, we expect Texas to be purple in 2016 and blue somewhat after - and it'll happen even if all that happens is the passage of time as the old/fat/white guys die off. ;) At the state level, Wendy Davis is within a few percentage points of the Republican candidate for governor.

Gerrymandering absolutely affects both state and federal representation, and thus political appointees to bodies like the Texas Railroad Commission (oil/gas lease management) and the Texas Comission on Environmental Quality (emissions rules/permitting) and the state and Federal courts. In such an environment, and with regards to oil/gas 'development', it doesn't matter who the president is.

And while your comment may be technically true, the lines are quite blurred when the Gerrymandered oligarchy can easily pass laws that limit voting access to members of a particular party. That does affect presidential election results.
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LTLFTcomposite
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Re: Verdict is in! Fracking on Trial in Texas

Sun Apr 27, 2014 6:25 pm

AndyH wrote:...and it'll happen even if all that happens is the passage of time as the old/fat/white guys die off

Cliven Bundy, Donald Sterling... apparently this is the week for racist remarks.
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Re: Verdict is in! Fracking on Trial in Texas

Sun Apr 27, 2014 6:43 pm

LTLFTcomposite wrote:
AndyH wrote:...and it'll happen even if all that happens is the passage of time as the old/fat/white guys die off

Cliven Bundy, Donald Sterling... apparently this is the week for racist remarks.

So...AndyH's remarks above aren't racist? I'm an "old/white/(but not fat) guy; and I resent what AndyH said. :(
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Re: Verdict is in! Fracking on Trial in Texas

Sun Apr 27, 2014 6:46 pm

It's par for the course... I resent a lot of what Andy says! :lol:

derkraut wrote:So...AndyH's remarks above aren't racist? I'm an "old/white/(but not fat) guy; and I resent what AndyH said. :(
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evnow
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Re: Verdict is in! Fracking on Trial in Texas

Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:27 am

AndyH wrote:And while your comment may be technically true, the lines are quite blurred when the Gerrymandered oligarchy can easily pass laws that limit voting access to members of a particular party. That does affect presidential election results.

Yes - it can seriously start affecting presidential elections if voting access laws are gutted at the state level by gerrymandered representatives.

Worst case of 2010 gerrymandering is in PA - where the President easily won but some 80% of house members are Republicans.
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Re: Verdict is in! Fracking on Trial in Texas

Mon Apr 28, 2014 11:03 am

derkraut wrote:
LTLFTcomposite wrote:
AndyH wrote:...and it'll happen even if all that happens is the passage of time as the old/fat/white guys die off

Cliven Bundy, Donald Sterling... apparently this is the week for racist remarks.

So...AndyH's remarks above aren't racist? I'm an "old/white/(but not fat) guy; and I resent what AndyH said. :(


no... some are fat, some are old and some are white. the N word is no where near the same level and can't believe you would even bring it up
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Re: Verdict is in! Fracking on Trial in Texas

Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:46 pm

Ok - now back on topic.

Is this verdict a one off or will it make frackers think twice ?
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Re: Verdict is in! Fracking on Trial in Texas

Mon Apr 28, 2014 3:37 pm

derkraut wrote:
LTLFTcomposite wrote:
AndyH wrote:...and it'll happen even if all that happens is the passage of time as the old/fat/white guys die off

Cliven Bundy, Donald Sterling... apparently this is the week for racist remarks.

So...AndyH's remarks above aren't racist? I'm an "old/white/(but not fat) guy; and I resent what AndyH said. :(

I don't consider self-deprecation to be racist. Considering I'm a 50+ year old 'natural' US citizen of Euro-mutt descent, retired military, still consider myself to be an old-school conservative in many ways (especially the type that honors conservation and are the type that fought to bring the EPA into existence), and voted R ~90% of my adult life, I put myself squarely in the potential cross-hairs. But I know that I'm not 'down range' because I think the type of behavior both on-topic and off is abhorrent.

My comment was in this vein:
Max Planck wrote:A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it.

It's often paraphrased as:
Science advances one funeral at a time.


The fact remains that Texas is now a 'minority majority' state and this has some of the more 'rich and powerful' (ahem...old, white, wealthy - facts is facts, amigo) citizenry in full-time fear mode. That's why they can 'justify' reducing hours for voter-ID services in 'brown' neighborhoods while expanding hours in 'white/Republican' neighborhoods, continued Gerrymandering, their war on women, and all the other BS they can try to rationalize so they can stay in power...just...one...more...year.

Talking about racial truth and discrimination isn't the same as racism - I'm shining a light on abuses of power, not advocating for slavery.

http://www.thewire.com/politics/2013/08/justice-department-sues-prove-texas-lawmakers-are-racist/68632/
The Justice Department filed suit against Texas on Thursday, in an attempt to block the state's strict new voter identification law...At issue are new voting rules which a district appeals court dubbed "the most stringent in the country." The rules mandate a state-issued ID for anyone seeking to vote, a stipulation that would, in effect, prevent far more Latino (and probably Democratic) residents from casting votes in the solidly red Lone Star state.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/charles-clymer/supreme-court-voting-rights-act-racism_b_3497572.html
Quick story: I grew up in Texas. I went with my father when he voted in the Democratic Primary for the 2002 midterms. I was 16. I should mention that he and I are unmistakably white. However you perceive "whiteness", I think, on sight, 99 percent of folks in our area would guess we're conservatives. It is what it is.

We walk up to the election worker, an old white man, who was very friendly initially until my father asked where he was supposed to vote for the Democratic primary. Immediately, the man's face went sour, pointed in the direction of the area, and said, "Don't know why you'd want to vote for Democrats."

That was us. Now, imagine a person of color attempting to vote in an environment that's hostile even to stereotypically white folks who reveal they're liberals/moderates. Is it even worth the emotional pain? Why should a person of color have to factor cultural hostility into their decision to vote?

How about it, Tom, Kraut, and LT - are you fine gentlemen in favor of Gerrymandering, voter ID laws, stereotyping, or putting the oil refinery in the 'brown' neighborhood? If so, then you've got plenty of company. San Antonio's refineries aren't located where the rich folks live, and of COURSE Rex Tillerson wouldn't want fracking happening near HIS house!
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/26/us-usa-fracking-tillerson-idUSBREA1P24O20140226

The nerve. :roll:
Last edited by AndyH on Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:08 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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