Smidge204
Posts: 940
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:42 pm

Re: A post on EVs' role in mitigating global warming.

Sun Aug 03, 2014 5:11 pm

I find it extremely odd that "21s Century" was linked to the Wikipedia article on the 21s century every single time it was mentioned in that post - three times, in fact. Not only is it completely unnecessary to link to that Wikipedia page (since it adds nothing to the content of the post), but to link to it three times is hilariously redundant.

No human acting on their own cognition would do that. Either RegGuheert is possessed by a bot, or he's just copy-pasting from somewhere, or he's gone full derp. In any case, that post was not written by a rational human being.

Edit: Played around with the NOAA page there. The ONLY way to get that graph is to select "December" as the month for the 12-month time span. If you select any other starting month you will get either zero (Sept./Nov.) or positive trendlines. So whatever deluded soul cherry picked that graph spent a lot of time digging through all the permutations of the available options to find the ONE graph that could be construed to support their opinion, and ran with it.
=Smidge=

User avatar
RegGuheert
Posts: 6104
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:12 am
Delivery Date: 16 Mar 2012
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: A post on EVs' role in mitigating global warming.

Sun Aug 03, 2014 5:27 pm

Smidge204 wrote:Edit: Played around with the NOAA page there. The ONLY way to get that graph is to select "December" as the month for the 12-month time span. If you select any other starting month you will get either zero (Sept./Nov.) or positive trendlines. So whatever deluded soul cherry picked that graph spent a lot of time digging through all the permutations of the available options to find the ONE graph that could be construed to support their opinion, and ran with it.
Click "Annual" for timescale.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K miles: Apr 14, 2013, 20K miles (55.7Ah): Aug 7, 2014, 30K miles (52.0Ah): Dec 30, 2015, 40K miles (49.8Ah): Feb 8, 2017, 50K miles (47.2Ah): Dec 7, 2017.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

Stoaty
Posts: 4461
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2010 9:50 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 3871
Location: West Los Angeles

Re: A post on EVs' role in mitigating global warming.

Sun Aug 03, 2014 6:59 pm

Assaf,

I am going to apologize for Reg, our resident climate change denier. We have been trying to get him to look at the (non-cherry picked) science with an open mind, but without any success. Rest assured that most of us appreciate your article.

Still warming after all these years.
2011 Leaf with 62,000 miles given to Nephew
2013 Tesla Model S85 with 251 miles rated range at full charge
Leaf Spy Manual
Battery Aging Model Spreadsheet

User avatar
abasile
Forum Supporter
Posts: 1922
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:49 am
Delivery Date: 20 Apr 2011
Location: Arrowbear Lake, CA

Re: A post on EVs' role in mitigating global warming.

Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:19 am

Nubo wrote:
"As home energy efficiency improves...our EVs will take a larger and larger chunk of electric demand

we have a fully-functional fusion reactor nearby that is more than capable of doing the job. :)

Judging by the responses, it appears no one realized that the "fully-functional fusion reactor" to which Nubo was referring is none other than our Sun (i.e., solar power). :D
2011 LEAF at 71K miles, pre-owned 2012 Tesla S 85 at 98K miles
LEAF battery: 9/12 bars and < 49 Ah (-28% vs. new)
Tesla battery: 250+ miles of range (-5% vs. new)

User avatar
LTLFTcomposite
Posts: 4425
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:06 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Dec 2011
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Central FL

Re: A post on EVs' role in mitigating global warming.

Mon Aug 04, 2014 10:27 am

I'd like to see some analysis of what % of carbon emissions are attributed to cars, and how much of that could by eliminated by PHEVs. Looks to me like dollar for dollar and pound for pound of batteries that's the best way to reduce carbon emissions from that sector to the noise level in an solution that is readily acceptable to consumers.
LTL
White 2012 SV delivered 10 Dec 2011 returned 25 Nov 2014 replaced with stopgap ICE Sentra
[35 months] [35K miles] [9 Bars]
2013 Volt replaced after 36 months/30k miles with ICE Rogue
2016 SV-adjacent May 2016 lost 4th bar March 2018

WetEV
Posts: 1940
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: A post on EVs' role in mitigating global warming.

Mon Aug 04, 2014 10:46 am

RegGuheert wrote:If you think that CO2 was responsible for a majority of the warming at the end of the 20th century, the lack of warming in the tells you that you cannot be correct. Other factors must be dominant, otherwise they could not put a halt to the temperature effects of a much greater quantity of CO2 that resides in the atmosphere today.


Time scales are very important, and on short time periods other factors are dominant in the atmosphere.


RegGuheert wrote:As the Sun comes down from the peak of solar cycle 24, it will become clear to all just how minor a role CO2 plays in the temperature of our planet.


Or not.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red

Weatherman
Posts: 916
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 12:03 pm
Delivery Date: 08 Jul 2012
Leaf Number: 20922
Location: Weston, Florida

Re: A post on EVs' role in mitigating global warming.

Mon Aug 04, 2014 10:58 am

Cars and light-duty trucks represent a very small fraction of the total CO2 emissions, at least in the U.S..

http://climate.dot.gov/about/transporta ... rview.html

http://www.ucsusa.org/clean_vehicles/wh ... l-warming/


61% of 28%, or 17% of the total.

Converting some cars to electric would reduce the total CO2 production by a very, very tiny bit. However, to a large extent, it would just shift the CO2 generation from transportation over to the electricity generation total.

Bottom line is that any mass adoption of electric vehicles is not going to make much difference at all in total CO2 production without a major shift in electric generation to cleaner methods.
2013 Crystal Red Volt
2012 SV Glacier Pearl LEAF; turned in 5/12/2015:18.6K Miles:50.13 AHr:10 bars, 24% gone

User avatar
LTLFTcomposite
Posts: 4425
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:06 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Dec 2011
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Central FL

Re: A post on EVs' role in mitigating global warming.

Mon Aug 04, 2014 11:20 am

Weatherman wrote:Bottom line is that any mass adoption of electric vehicles is not going to make much difference at all in total CO2 production without a major shift in electric generation to cleaner methods.

What about the argument that just refining oil into gasoline uses about as much electricity as it does to power the EV directly?
LTL
White 2012 SV delivered 10 Dec 2011 returned 25 Nov 2014 replaced with stopgap ICE Sentra
[35 months] [35K miles] [9 Bars]
2013 Volt replaced after 36 months/30k miles with ICE Rogue
2016 SV-adjacent May 2016 lost 4th bar March 2018

Alric
Posts: 140
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:00 pm
Delivery Date: 16 May 2012

Re: A post on EVs' role in mitigating global warming.

Mon Aug 04, 2014 11:33 am

Weatherman wrote:Cars and light-duty trucks represent a very small fraction of the total CO2 emissions, at least in the U.S..

http://climate.dot.gov/about/transporta ... rview.html

http://www.ucsusa.org/clean_vehicles/wh ... l-warming/



From your link:

"The largest sources of transportation GHGs in 2006 were passenger cars (34%) and light duty trucks, which include sport utility vehicles, pickup trucks, and minivans (28%). Together with motorcycles, these light-duty vehicles made up about 63% of transportation GHG emissions. "

Weatherman
Posts: 916
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 12:03 pm
Delivery Date: 08 Jul 2012
Leaf Number: 20922
Location: Weston, Florida

Re: A post on EVs' role in mitigating global warming.

Mon Aug 04, 2014 11:35 am

LTLFTcomposite wrote:
Weatherman wrote:Bottom line is that any mass adoption of electric vehicles is not going to make much difference at all in total CO2 production without a major shift in electric generation to cleaner methods.

What about the argument that just refining oil into gasoline uses about as much electricity as it does to power the EV directly?


I suppose you could take a tiny bit out of the 20% contribution from Industry. But remember that gasoline is only one product resulting from the refining of crude oil. Refining crude isn't going to significantly slow down just because of a reduction in demand for one of the fractions.

I think the main appeal for the conversion to electric cars is to reduce dependency on foreign oil. We may not decrease the total amount of CO2 produced, but it will come from burning domestic natural gas and coal. Far more people (across the entire political and ideological spectrum) will be willing to go along with this argument than the argument that electric vehicle adoption will significantly reduce CO2 production.
2013 Crystal Red Volt
2012 SV Glacier Pearl LEAF; turned in 5/12/2015:18.6K Miles:50.13 AHr:10 bars, 24% gone

Return to “Environmental Issues”