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RegGuheert
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IT IS THE DAWN OF A BEAUTIFUL DAY!

Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:33 pm

Of course those aren't the measured global temperatures. As we all know, this data has been tampered with to get a desired result. This tampering has been done worldwide, but we know how much was done here in the U.S.:

Image

Look at that! Temperatures are cyclical.

Fortunately, not all historical records have been tampered with. We know that ice extent today is virtually the same as it was in the 1920s,1930s and 1940s. You can read the same alarming newspaper articles about ice loss from all around the world from the 1920s, 1930s and 1940s. Of course it was nonsense then, just as it is nonsense now.

What we find is that the climate did virtually the same thing in the first half of the 20th century as it is doing now. But we have scientists putting their thumbs on the scales to try to frighten people. It's unfortunate that so many believe the nonsense.

Fortunately, global trends of tornadoes, hurricanes, floods and drought are all down and global tends of food production are up. And it seems heat waves are a thing of the past in the U.S., as well:

Image
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
2011 miles at purchase. 10K miles on Apr 14, 2013. 20K miles (55.7Ah) on Aug 7, 2014, 30K miles (52.0Ah) on Dec 30, 2015, 40K miles (49.8Ah) on Feb 8, 2017.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

ENIAC
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Re: IT IS 3 MINUTES TO MIDNIGHT

Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:28 pm

I've often wondered if the period prior to 1980 (after which global temperatures began accelerating) was more stable due to suspended particulates in the atmosphere. See chart below. Recall how filthy the air appeared in many large cities back then. In Denver we had the "Brown Cloud". In Colorado they found that if the sand they used on the roads in the winter was quickly swept up suspended particulates were significantly reduce. But of course reduced suspended particulates will result in additional solar energy reaching the earths surface.

Image
Myths And Facts About Electric Cars

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RegGuheert
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Re: IT IS 3 MINUTES TO MIDNIGHT

Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:43 pm

ENIAC wrote:I've often wondered if the period prior to 1980 (after which global temperatures began accelerating) was more stable due to suspended particulates in the atmosphere. See chart below. Recall how filthy the air appeared in many large cities back then. In Denver we had the "Brown Cloud". In Colorado they found that if the sand they used on the roads in the winter was quickly swept up suspended particulates were significantly reduce. But of course reduced suspended particulates will result in additional solar energy reaching the earths surface.
Sorry I can't recall the papers, but there is quite a bit of evidence that pollution was suppressing temperatures in Europe during that period and that some of the warming after that time was due to laws that limited pollution. Of course China has way worse pollution today than the U.S or Europe ever had. Hmmm.

Edit: Found it: Diurnal temperature range over Europe between 1950 and 2005. Here is the beginning of the conclusion from that paper:
We investigated annual mean DTR for the period 1950 until 2005 for 23 different countries and regions in and around Eu- rope as well as Europe as a whole. A total of 16 out of these 23 regions as well as the European mean show a statistically significant period of decrease and a subsequent increase in DTR. Two additional regions (BeNeLux, Spain) show an in- crease, which however is not statistically significant in the multiple regression analysis. Of the remaining five regions, two (East Germany, Portugal) show no specific trend and three (Sweden, Baltic States, Ukraine) regions show a con- tinuation of the decreasing trend. The trend analysis is lim- ited by the lack of a standard homogeneity procedure and by the limited number of available measurement sites and their spatial distribution.

The connection between DTR, shortwave radiation and SO2 emissions has been qualitatively discussed with respect to a common trend reversal. The period of reversal of DTR from decrease to increase is in most cases in line with social and economic development as indicated by SO2-emissions or deposition, respectively. All reversals of DTR were shown to take place between 1965 and 1990. This is consistent with the change from decrease to increase of incoming short- wave radiation (“Global Dimming” to “Global Brighten- ing”). Consequently, we conclude that the long-term trends in DTR are strongly affected by changes in incoming short- wave radiation, presumably largely influenced by direct and indirect effects of aerosol from sulphurous emissions.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
2011 miles at purchase. 10K miles on Apr 14, 2013. 20K miles (55.7Ah) on Aug 7, 2014, 30K miles (52.0Ah) on Dec 30, 2015, 40K miles (49.8Ah) on Feb 8, 2017.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

GetOffYourGas
Posts: 1652
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Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: IT IS THE DAWN OF A BEAUTIFUL DAY!

Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:05 pm

RegGuheert wrote:Of course those aren't the measured global temperatures. As we all know, this data has been tampered with to get a desired result. This tampering has been done worldwide, but we know how much was done here in the U.S.:

Image

Look at that! Temperatures are cyclical.

Fortunately, not all historical records have been tampered with. We know that ice extent today is virtually the same as it was in the 1920s,1930s and 1940s. You can read the same alarming newspaper articles about ice loss from all around the world from the 1920s, 1930s and 1940s. Of course it was nonsense then, just as it is nonsense now.

What we find is that the climate did virtually the same thing in the first half of the 20th century as it is doing now. But we have scientists putting their thumbs on the scales to try to frighten people. It's unfortunate that so many believe the nonsense.

Fortunately, global trends of tornadoes, hurricanes, floods and drought are all down and global tends of food production are up. And it seems heat waves are a thing of the past in the U.S., as well:

Image


I like the new title, Reg. It's too bad it didn't stick.

I have nothing to add to this discussion, as I am not a climate scientist, nor am I particularly "alarmed" by current trends. From what I can tell, there are far more pressing issues facing this world. Environmentally, many of them involve much more acute pollution (smog, poisoning water supplies, etc), which are much more of a driver for my behavior that CO2. For those who are concerned about CO2, I guess they can rest assured that your solar array and mine, as well as our EVs, are making a dent in CO2 emissions too, regardless of what we think.
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV (traded for Bolt)
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)
2017 Bolt Premier

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RegGuheert
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Re: IT IS THE DAWN OF A BEAUTIFUL DAY!

Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:04 pm

GetOffYourGas wrote:I like the new title, Reg. It's too bad it didn't stick.

I have nothing to add to this discussion, as I am not a climate scientist, nor am I particularly "alarmed" by current trends. From what I can tell, there are far more pressing issues facing this world. Environmentally, many of them involve much more acute pollution (smog, poisoning water supplies, etc), which are much more of a driver for my behavior that CO2. For those who are concerned about CO2, I guess they can rest assured that your solar array and mine, as well as our EVs, are making a dent in CO2 emissions too, regardless of what we think.
Well said. You are not alone: Taking action on climate change was dead last on the UN's survey of the priorities of people all around the world. That tells you a lot about leaders who claim that it is the world's most pressing problem.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
2011 miles at purchase. 10K miles on Apr 14, 2013. 20K miles (55.7Ah) on Aug 7, 2014, 30K miles (52.0Ah) on Dec 30, 2015, 40K miles (49.8Ah) on Feb 8, 2017.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

DaveinOlyWA
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Re: IT IS 3 MINUTES TO MIDNIGHT

Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:28 pm

Our Winter may have been the coldest since whenever but due to the number of colder days and not due to severity since this past Winter was merely wetter than normal with temps not all that much lower than the norm. It definitely was not the coldest Winter since I have lived here by quite a stretch. We had one year like 89-90 or so that was much colder but likely over a somewhat shorter period mixed in with unseasonably warm weather (which is something we got very little of this year)

That Winter we hovered at zero for 2+ weeks. Had a few heavy snows and for the first (and only) time had several roads trashed from frost upheaval. That would have been ok but a few weeks later, the temps went cold again and we had 3 snowfalls each with accumulation that was enough to hang around several days including a stretch of a week or so where it did not warm up enough to melt any significant amount.

Now all that probably doesn't seem like much to most here but snow is not all that common here. We might get some 2-3 times a year but an entire season without accumulation is not all that unusual.

But all these are one offs. And we need to realize that Global "warming" was the incorrect term from day one. What is happening is simply greater weather extremes. We are setting cold and hot records at a blistering pace and yes, the hot ones outnumber the cold ones like 2 to 1 or something but this only illustrates the pendulum is swinging in ever wider arcs and we are left holding on for dear life...
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 (build 10/2016)"low water marks" 26,100.2 miles.363GID Ahr 79.55Hx95.35%kwh28.1QCs227,L2's 237
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GRA
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Re: IT IS 3 MINUTES TO MIDNIGHT

Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:57 pm

lorenfb wrote:
GRA wrote:The weird part as far as Norcal is that we had snow in the Lake Tahoe area just last Sunday, as well as high winds, some light rain, thunder and lightning, hail, a funnel cloud and below average temps in the Bay Area and Sacramento. While not unheard of, snow in June is extremely rare - even May is somewhat uncommon. Temps have been climbing steadily since then, and were in the normal range the past couple of days, but are forecast to break records in many places for the next week or so, with pretty much the entire Central Valley in triple digits a little early in the season.

And?

And nothing. A couple of hot spells every summer is pretty meaningless - they happen every year, although this one's a bit early, and quite a change in a short time. Example, the high a week ago Sunday in Livermore was 65; yesterday it was 106 there, and we're not forecast to see a drop below triple digits until Friday. Quite a few temp records were broken yesterday, some going back almost a century, but that doesn't mean it makes sense to draw any long-term conclusions about climate change from a single heat wave owing to an inland high - that's weather. Climate's a longer cycle.
Last edited by GRA on Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

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ENIAC
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Re: IT IS 3 MINUTES TO MIDNIGHT

Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:13 pm

I like this explanation of the relationship of CO2 to global warming. Very interesting video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rivf479bW8Q
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WetEV
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Ice Does Not Care.

Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:49 pm

The temperature is rising, so the ice melts.

Ice doesn't care about any quibbles about temperature records.

Your words are smooth and well crafted. But you are not convincing the ice.

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WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
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ENIAC
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Re: IT IS 3 MINUTES TO MIDNIGHT

Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:54 pm

This is a fascinating examination as to "Why People Don't Believe In Climate Science".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2euBvdP28c
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