LeftieBiker
Posts: 9828
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: idle chit chat

Fri Mar 20, 2015 1:40 am

The solution to this is to mandate (with intelligent exceptions) that all consumer vehicles, and most commercial ones, be at least weak hybrids, with larger storage batteries, starter/generators, and the ability to run at least the A/C for a few minutes with the engine off. They would shut the engine off when stopped, and restart it instantly when you want to move.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

RonDawg
Posts: 2906
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:46 am
Delivery Date: 11 Jan 2013
Leaf Number: 027089
Location: SoCal

Re: idle chit chat

Fri Mar 20, 2015 3:23 am

cwerdna wrote:
LTLFTcomposite wrote:Hate to think how much fuel is being wasted and carbon emitted by lazy fat asses in fast food drive through lines.

At an In-N-Out Burger somewhat near me, on a busy night, the drive thru line is usually over a dozen vehicles long, almost NONE of which are hybrids, EVs/PHEVs or anything w/auto-start/stop systems. A fair # of them are guzzler trucks and SUVs (medium sized or above, V6 or V8 powered). The fricking dining room/lobby is open the whole time!.


Even if I plan on getting that Double-Double "to go" I often find it faster to park and go inside to order than to go through the drive-through.

On a related note I laugh whenever I see a long line of cars at the drive up ATM but there are unused walk-up ones nearby along with ample free parking.
Blue Ocean 2012 Leaf SV, lost that 1st bar at 34 months/26,435 miles. Lease returned 2 months later. Final LeafStat figures: 225 Gids, 17.44 kWH, SOC 91.89%, SOH 82.36%, 69.49% HX, 54.57 Ahr, battery temp 61.8 F.
Now driving a 2015 VW eGolf SEL.

RonDawg
Posts: 2906
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:46 am
Delivery Date: 11 Jan 2013
Leaf Number: 027089
Location: SoCal

Re: idle chit chat

Fri Mar 20, 2015 3:30 am

LeftieBiker wrote:The solution to this is to mandate (with intelligent exceptions) that all consumer vehicles, and most commercial ones, be at least weak hybrids, with larger storage batteries, starter/generators, and the ability to run at least the A/C for a few minutes with the engine off. They would shut the engine off when stopped, and restart it instantly when you want to move.


California already mandates an auto shutoff system for diesel engines on trucks 2008 and newer of at least 14k lbs GVWR: http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2011/06/ca ... -that.html

There are exceptions for certain types of vehicles (like those used for public safety) and if the NOx emissions at idle are below a certain threshold. A truck driver who was asking about my Leaf had the "Certified Clean Idle" sticker and he told me his particular truck is a hybrid.

California has also outlawed the idling of over 5 minutes of any diesel powered vehicle of over 10k lbs GVWR, regardless of age or where it's registered: http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/cabcomfort/cabcomfort.htm
Blue Ocean 2012 Leaf SV, lost that 1st bar at 34 months/26,435 miles. Lease returned 2 months later. Final LeafStat figures: 225 Gids, 17.44 kWH, SOC 91.89%, SOH 82.36%, 69.49% HX, 54.57 Ahr, battery temp 61.8 F.
Now driving a 2015 VW eGolf SEL.

TimLee
Posts: 2811
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:40 am
Delivery Date: 17 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2026
Location: Chattanooga, TN

Re: idle chit chat

Fri Mar 20, 2015 6:25 am

Several years back my wife's father's family had a big family reunion. Had a diesel nice air conditioned tour bus.

At picnic lunch stop driver did what was and to a large extent still is normal for a tour bus in the US he left it running with air conditioning on, even though everyone was eating outside in the 90F heat at picnic tables.

But one relative, a cousin that has lived in Switzerland for most of his life proceeded to ask everyone why the driver was leaving the bus running.

Opinions on stopping unnecessary idling are changing in the US, but very slowly.

Tim Lee
Chattanooga, TN

Man. Date: 03/10/11, VIN # 2026
Delivered 05-17-2011
Blue Ocean, 2011 SL-eTec

TimLee
Posts: 2811
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:40 am
Delivery Date: 17 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2026
Location: Chattanooga, TN

Re: idle chit chat

Fri Mar 20, 2015 6:40 am

cwerdna wrote:...anything w/auto-start/stop systems. ...

The unfortunate reality is that most of the auto-start/stop systems that OEMs are adding to more and more of their ICE vehicles to get a better EPA rating just do not work in the real world.
They only work in the short EPA test cycle.

The standard cranking service lead acid batteries they are using do not support the energy needs for auto-start/stop systems in real world driving systems.
All they are doing is generating an inefficient huge waste stream of failed lead acid batteries.

A pHD battery technologies expert in Chattanooga has talked with several of them about battery technologies that would work.
The OEMs recognize what they are building does not work, but they just do not care.
All they care about is gaming the EPA test with a lower #, whether they deliver real world results or not.

Mandates on auto-start/stop systems will require a lot better standards on requiring real world results, otherwise they will be a useless inefficient waste.

Tim Lee
Chattanooga, TN

Man. Date: 03/10/11, VIN # 2026
Delivered 05-17-2011
Blue Ocean, 2011 SL-eTec

LeftieBiker
Posts: 9828
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: idle chit chat

Fri Mar 20, 2015 1:43 pm

Large form factor NiMH batteries would work fine in this application. They are cheap and rugged. The self-discharge issue is solvable, as evidenced by the existence of small form factor NiMH batteries that don't self-discharge much.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

RonDawg
Posts: 2906
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:46 am
Delivery Date: 11 Jan 2013
Leaf Number: 027089
Location: SoCal

Re: idle chit chat

Fri Mar 20, 2015 8:08 pm

TimLee wrote:Several years back my wife's father's family had a big family reunion. Had a diesel nice air conditioned tour bus.

At picnic lunch stop driver did what was and to a large extent still is normal for a tour bus in the US he left it running with air conditioning on, even though everyone was eating outside in the 90F heat at picnic tables.

But one relative, a cousin that has lived in Switzerland for most of his life proceeded to ask everyone why the driver was leaving the bus running.

Opinions on stopping unnecessary idling are changing in the US, but very slowly.


A friend of a friend is Swiss, and he told me that in Switzerland you can get a ticket for any form of excessive idling, including leaving the car running while you remove snow and ice from the windows and lights.
Blue Ocean 2012 Leaf SV, lost that 1st bar at 34 months/26,435 miles. Lease returned 2 months later. Final LeafStat figures: 225 Gids, 17.44 kWH, SOC 91.89%, SOH 82.36%, 69.49% HX, 54.57 Ahr, battery temp 61.8 F.
Now driving a 2015 VW eGolf SEL.

derkraut
Posts: 1508
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 7:39 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 004248
Location: San Diego vicinity

Re: idle chit chat

Fri Mar 20, 2015 8:19 pm

Proposed Solution: Raise the federal gasoline & diesel tax so that the pump price is around $10 per gallon. Use the billions/trillions $$ collected to balance the federal budget/pay down the national debt. Of course, that'll never happen because there are too many macho pick-em-up truck/hemi/big V-8 drivers out there. :roll:
Derkraut
Color: Cayenne SLE, ETEC trim
reserved: 5/15/2010
Leaf del. 6/14/2011
New Traction battery installed on 7/28/2017:

RonDawg
Posts: 2906
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:46 am
Delivery Date: 11 Jan 2013
Leaf Number: 027089
Location: SoCal

Re: idle chit chat

Fri Mar 20, 2015 8:21 pm

derkraut wrote:Proposed Solution: Raise the federal gasoline & diesel tax so that the pump price is around $10 per gallon. Use the billions/trillions $$ collected to balance the federal budget/pay down the national debt. Of course, that'll never happen because there are too many macho pick-em-up truck/hemi/big V-8 drivers out there. :roll:


Even if everybody drove a Prius or a Leaf, $10/gallon gas would cause the price of all consumer goods to go up, because trucks are still needed to get those products to retailers.
Blue Ocean 2012 Leaf SV, lost that 1st bar at 34 months/26,435 miles. Lease returned 2 months later. Final LeafStat figures: 225 Gids, 17.44 kWH, SOC 91.89%, SOH 82.36%, 69.49% HX, 54.57 Ahr, battery temp 61.8 F.
Now driving a 2015 VW eGolf SEL.

Return to “Environmental Issues”