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TomT
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Audi Creates "Fuel of the Future" Using Carbon Dioxide & H2O

Mon Apr 27, 2015 7:45 am

German car manufacturer Audi says it has created the "fuel of the future" made solely from water, carbon dioxide and renewable sources. The synthetic "e-diesel" was made following a commissioning phase of just four months at a plant in Dresden, Germany.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/audi-creates-g ... er-1498524
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ishiyakazuo
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Re: Audi Creates "Fuel of the Future" Using Carbon Dioxide &

Mon Apr 27, 2015 8:09 am

Creation of the fuel, which Audi and Sunfire are calling blue crude, first requires heating water to 800C (1,472F) to trigger a high temperature electrolysis to break down the steam to hydrogen and oxygen.

Sounds pretty costly in terms of energy needed to create this stuff. Also, 160L/day... that might cover the diesel needs of a whole semi truck for a day.
Don't get me wrong -- I'm always happy to hear about something new being done, but I don't see this changing the world any time soon -- certainly no "fuel of the future" being made here.
On the other hand... if this could be made by passing water through the waste fuel ponds of nuclear plants, that might be a cheap way to make lemonade from lemons...
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TomT
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Re: Audi Creates "Fuel of the Future" Using Carbon Dioxide &

Mon Apr 27, 2015 8:15 am

The actual technical paper indicates that the "plant" was in a room about 10' by 15' so obviously a larger commercial version would produce exponentially much more... They also mention that power required would drop with a commercial version, and that a combination of solar and wind could reduce the power footprint to near zero... It continues that the temperature necessary for the process is expected to drop as it is refined... All other considerations aside, it IS very interesting science...

ishiyakazuo wrote:Sounds pretty costly in terms of energy needed to create this stuff. Also, 160L/day... that might cover the diesel needs of a whole semi truck for a day.
Last edited by TomT on Mon Apr 27, 2015 9:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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ishiyakazuo
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Re: Audi Creates "Fuel of the Future" Using Carbon Dioxide &

Mon Apr 27, 2015 8:22 am

That's often the case (that once it's commercialized, it becomes cheaper and easier to produce more), but I wouldn't exactly call 160L/day a "factory" (and it sounded like 160L was optimistic). I had to wonder if the minister who used it in her Audi A8 used the entirety of the manufactured fuel for the one car.
Still, super-heating water to 800C is gonna use an insane amount of energy relative to the output. I'm also wondering if there would be requirements on the water's purity that might make this something where we need to decide between vehicle fuel and clean water supply in places.
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Re: Audi Creates "Fuel of the Future" Using Carbon Dioxide &

Mon Apr 27, 2015 8:34 am

Not to mention that burning the stuff releases CO2 back into the atmosphere?

I'll stick to solar powered LEAF for now.
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Nubo
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Re: Audi Creates "Fuel of the Future" Using Carbon Dioxide &

Mon Apr 27, 2015 8:53 am

Just what the world needs. More diesel engines.
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

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Re: Audi Creates "Fuel of the Future" Using Carbon Dioxide &

Mon Apr 27, 2015 9:40 am

DNAinaGoodWay wrote:Not to mention that burning the stuff releases CO2 back into the atmosphere?


If they capture the CO2 to create it, it at least has the chance of being carbon neutral. I actually have more of a problem with them using water, unless they can use grey or waste water.
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AndyH
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Re: Audi Creates "Fuel of the Future" Using Carbon Dioxide &

Mon Apr 27, 2015 9:51 am

From the H2 thread, and the ASPO 2012 Conference - Oct 2013
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=332980#p332980

200 mile battery thread from May 2014
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=367176#p367176



This is an R&D program to use excess renewable power and atmospheric carbon to make liquid fuels for current-tech vehicles.
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Re: Audi Creates "Fuel of the Future" Using Carbon Dioxide &

Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:15 am

I wonder if this is similar to the process the US Navy is using to create fuel "from sea water" (http://www.voanews.com/content/us-navy- ... 19512.html). Note that in this case the electrical energy to 'fuel' the process is suggested to be a nuclear power plan on board the ship.

But I see that in essence the real fuel process in the OP link is H2 + CO2, so getting the hydrogen from water (seawater or otherwise) is one process, then creating the long-chain hydrocarbons (and some water to boot) is a second process. This implies to me that they could get the H2 from whatever sources they want.
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AndyH
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Re: Audi Creates "Fuel of the Future" Using Carbon Dioxide &

Mon Apr 27, 2015 11:32 am

Slow1 wrote:I wonder if this is similar to the process the US Navy is using to create fuel "from sea water" (http://www.voanews.com/content/us-navy- ... 19512.html). Note that in this case the electrical energy to 'fuel' the process is suggested to be a nuclear power plan on board the ship.

But I see that in essence the real fuel process in the OP link is H2 + CO2, so getting the hydrogen from water (seawater or otherwise) is one process, then creating the long-chain hydrocarbons (and some water to boot) is a second process. This implies to me that they could get the H2 from whatever sources they want.

Check the video above. Herman Peng is part of the Audi team. The entire point of the project is to store renewable energy in ways that are more easily used in the current economy, while being able to easily evolve into a post-fossil fuel world without change. This is a part of the EU's transition to the Third Industrial Revolution that they began about 2004.
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