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RegGuheert
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TVA commissions first new nuclear reactor in US in 20 years

Fri Oct 21, 2016 3:38 pm

The TVA has just brought online a new nuclear reactor rated at 1.15 GW. The project was completed on budget for $4.7 billion dollars.

This power plant cost a bit more than twice what the Ivanpah concentrating solar generator cost. The new Watts Bar Unit 2 plant uses one-half the land area of Ivanpah but produces over 14 times as much electricity. It also produces 24 hours a day rather than during the daytime only.

It also doesn't kill birds or burn natural gas.

Edit: Changed production ratio from 30:1 to 14:1 and added reference to natural gas consumption.
Last edited by RegGuheert on Sat Oct 22, 2016 8:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
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AntronX
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Re: TVA commissions first new nuclear reactor in US in 20 years

Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:15 am

Great news, really. I try to charge my Leaf between 2 - 5am to get maximum share of electricity from our nearby 2 nuke plants. Together with natural gas plants, I get over 100mpg CO2 equivalent to gasoline cars.

LeftieBiker
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Re: TVA commissions first new nuclear reactor in US in 20 years

Sat Oct 22, 2016 2:28 am

Now if only they'd bring back those breeder reactors!
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

DanCar
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Re: TVA commissions first new nuclear reactor in US in 20 years

Sat Oct 22, 2016 5:22 am

RegGuheert wrote:The TVA has just brought online a new nuclear reactor rated at 1.15 GW. The project was completed on budget for $4.7 billion dollars.

This power plant cost a bit more than twice what the Ivanpah concentrating solar generator cost. The new Watts Bar Unit 2 plant uses one-half the land area of Ivanpah but produces over 30 times as much electricity. It also produces 24 hours a day rather than during the daytime only.

It also doesn't kill birds.
How is the 30 times as much electricity calculated?
Last edited by DanCar on Sat Oct 22, 2016 7:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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DNAinaGoodWay
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Re: TVA commissions first new nuclear reactor in US in 20 years

Sat Oct 22, 2016 5:39 am

It takes so long to build these. Planning for this began in the 70's & 80's and it's design is similar to that era. But there are more in the pipeline:

Two new nuclear units being built by the Southern Company, in Georgia, and two more under construction in South Carolina, will employ a new, more-streamlined technology called an “advanced pressurized water reactor,” which is thought to be an even greater safety improvement over older technologies.


From: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/ene ... fdc300ada6
'12 SL last reading @ 2 yr, 22k, 260 GIDs, 62.35 Ahr

'15 SV w/QC, Mfd 5/14, Leased 8/14, 292 GIDs, 64.38 Ahr when new

@ 25 months, 25k, 267 GID, 56.88 Ahr
@ 29 months, 29k, 286 GID, 60.88 Ahr
@ 31 months, 30.3k, 274 GID, 58.39 Ahr

6.72 kW Array

rmay635703
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Re: TVA commissions first new nuclear reactor in US in 20 years

Sat Oct 22, 2016 8:23 am

Too bad it's not msr thorium, uses 95% less fuel to make the same power and makes 95% less waste.

Now if we could be like Japan and offer 50lb nuclear waste powered onboard ev trickle chargers we would have our perpetual motion machines.

Sadly, us citizens can't be trusted with a few grams of nuclear material. :(

So much would be possible with fewer dbags

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RegGuheert
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Re: TVA commissions first new nuclear reactor in US in 20 years

Sat Oct 22, 2016 8:51 am

DanCar wrote:How is the 30 times as much electricity calculated?
I just took the simple ratio of the claims made by the companies who are responsible for these power plants:

From the Brightsource Ivanpah fact sheet:
BrightSource wrote:Average Homes Served Annually: 140,000

From the TVA announcement linked in the OP:
TVA wrote:Watts Bar Unit 2 is TVA’s seventh operating nuclear reactor delivering carbon-free energy to the Tennessee Valley, helping to generate enough clean electricity to power 4.5 million homes.
But I see now that those two quotes are not an apples-to-apples comparison.

Another way to calculate the result is to compare their annual electricity production:

Ivanpah 2015 production: 655,926 MWh

Annual Watts Bar Unit 2 Production: 1,150 MW * 365 days/year * 24 hours/day = 10 million MWh/year

So it looks like the real ratio is only 15:1 (or perhaps 14:1 once the capacity factor of the nuclear reactor is taken into consideration). I will fix the OP.

Also note that the base load electricity from a nuclear reactor is immensely more valuable than the electricity from Ivanpah.

Finally, Ivanpah burned 1,251 million cubic feet (mmcf) of natural gas to produce the 655,926 MWh of electricity mentioned above.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
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DaveinOlyWA
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Re: TVA commissions first new nuclear reactor in US in 20 years

Sat Oct 22, 2016 9:38 am

RegGuheert wrote:The TVA has just brought online a new nuclear reactor rated at 1.15 GW. The project was completed on budget for $4.7 billion dollars.

This power plant cost a bit more than twice what the Ivanpah concentrating solar generator cost. The new Watts Bar Unit 2 plant uses one-half the land area of Ivanpah but produces over 14 times as much electricity. It also produces 24 hours a day rather than during the daytime only.

It also doesn't kill birds or burn natural gas.

Edit: Changed production ratio from 30:1 to 14:1 and added reference to natural gas consumption.



why does this comparison remind me of using only exhaust from a gasser to compare emissions?
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles. 2016 S30; 8341 miles. 363 GIDs, Ahr 82.34, Hx; 100% kwh 28.1
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RegGuheert
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Re: TVA commissions first new nuclear reactor in US in 20 years

Sat Oct 22, 2016 10:40 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:why does this comparison remind me of using only exhaust from a gasser to compare emissions?
An irrational bias against nuclear power and for solar power, perhaps?

The costs were included in the comparison, so that gives a rough estimate of emissions involved in the creation of the two plants.

Per kWh, we have the following rough comparisons:

- Ivanpah consumes about 30X as much land area per kWh produced.
- Ivanpah consumes about 6X as many resources per kWh produced.
- Ivanpah burns infinitely more natural gas per kWh produced.
- Ivanpah kills infinitely more birds and bugs per kWh produced.

Sorry, but Ivanpah is NOT an environmentally-friendly solution to electricity generation.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
2011 miles at purchase. 10K miles on Apr 14, 2013. 20K miles (55.7Ah) on Aug 7, 2014, 3K miles (52.0Ah) on Dec 30, 2015, 40K miles (49.8Ah) on Feb 8, 2017.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

DaveinOlyWA
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Re: TVA commissions first new nuclear reactor in US in 20 years

Sat Oct 22, 2016 11:35 am

RegGuheert wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:why does this comparison remind me of using only exhaust from a gasser to compare emissions?
An irrational bias against nuclear power and for solar power, perhaps?

The costs were included in the comparison, so that gives a rough estimate of emissions involved in the creation of the two plants.

Per kWh, we have the following rough comparisons:

- Ivanpah consumes about 30X as much land area per kWh produced.
- Ivanpah consumes about 6X as many resources per kWh produced.
- Ivanpah burns infinitely more natural gas per kWh produced.
- Ivanpah kills infinitely more birds and bugs per kWh produced.

Sorry, but Ivanpah is NOT an environmentally-friendly solution to electricity generation.


just missing the cost and impact of the nuclear waste handling and disposal.

In reality, any solution that can be at least partially addressed by the individual is not one that will get support or a level discussion concerning all aspects of its implementation, use and long term ecological impact. This is why Solar does not pencil out. It is because we as individuals can take the matter into our own hands. Big Energy simply cannot allow that to happen.

There is little doubt Nuclear would win on several fronts, but it also loses on a few but lets not get blinded by the number of bullet points because Nuclear loses in a very big way.
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