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Re: Trumpists begin their attack on America's EV policies.

Wed Mar 29, 2017 8:02 am

LTLFTcomposite wrote:Indeed the executive is largely unimportant


A question of balance.

System design was stated to be based on separation of powers, and seems to work as designed. Three branches of government, none of which can override the other two. For overriding the courts, see the history of New Deal legislation in the 1930's.
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rmay635703
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Re: Trumpists begin their attack on America's EV policies.

Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:24 am

LTLFTcomposite wrote:The biggest impact cars have on roads is not damage to pavement but rather the space they take up. Unclear what effect if any DT has had on that.

I have long believed that much of the US coastline needs a Kei car system, if most of your cars take 1/3 the space and bicycles and motorcycles dominate (being smaller yet) your roads become less crowded.
Here in the middle I have many trips without seeing another car for miles.
The joy of the coast.

Tiered
Up front taxes during purchase (and exemptions thereof), parking fee systems, outright bans of certain vehicles in certain areas and god forbid tiered license and registration on bigger cars, trucks and SUVs and exceptions on smaller rigs and bikes could drive the real cost to society of larger vehicles home and slowly remove them from our cities.

It wouldn't be popular but most important legislation isn't .

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Re: Trumpists begin their attack on America's EV policies.

Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:20 am

LTLFTcomposite wrote:What's interesting about the involvement of people like Musk and Gates is the potential for influence on DT. IMO DT is quite malleable. Once the initial lip services to campaign narratives like digging coal fades from the news cycle the world will keep doing whatever it was going to do anyway... then the question of what happens next becomes interesting. I see that time frame being in about 6-9 months.

Indeed, Trump probably knows full well that coal isn't coming back and that much of his anti-climate agenda is going to get stymied by the courts. But he'll claim credit with many of his supporters for "trying", while blaming others for the lack of "success". Same story as with healthcare - I don't think Trump really wants the GOP to un-do Obamacare, but he wants to look like he tried.

I think Trump appears malleable because he lacks principles. Had he thought he'd have had a better chance of getting elected by running as a liberal Democrat like Bernie Sanders, he'd have probably done that. Instead, he rightly and cynically assessed that he had a better shot at harnessing the authoritarian, anti-science, anti-globalization, and anti-immigration strains that were regrettably growing within the GOP.

Beyond that 6-9 months (or year or so), Trump seems most likely to do whatever will get him re-elected and/or build the Trump brand. If Musk, Gates, Cook, and others can convince him that he'll be a more popular president by pushing for a "carbon dividend" policy, for example, then he may go with this.
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Re: Trumpists begin their attack on America's EV policies.

Wed Mar 29, 2017 1:52 pm

abasile wrote:If Musk, Gates, Cook, and others can convince him that he'll be a more popular president by pushing for a "carbon dividend" policy, for example, then he may go with this.

In doing so, DT could inadvertently influence the views of the approx 37% of Americans who don't think climate change is a threat more than Algore and Leonardo DiCaprio ever could (which is pretty much zero, so not too hard to move the needle there). Or maybe he doesn't even have to, it could just be an artifact of whatever the "White House Office of American Innovation" plants in his head.
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Re: Trumpists begin their attack on America's EV policies.

Thu Mar 30, 2017 5:00 am

LTLFTcomposite wrote:In doing so, DT could inadvertently influence the views of the approx 37% of Americans who don't think climate change is a threat more than Algore and Leonardo DiCaprio ever could (which is pretty much zero, so not too hard to move the needle there).


This doesn't get said enough... self-righteous, condescending, hollywood liberals do tremendous harm to these causes by acting the way they do and alienating a large swath of the population. It amazes me that they continue to act against their own self interest this way, but self-righteous indignation is a hell of a drug.

98% of people will never understand the science of climate change (or lots of other modern issues) for the simple fact that nobody can be an expert on everything these days (no matter how many Vox explainers they have skimmed over LOL), people just need to trust the leaders that do understand these probems if we want to address it democratically. If Republicans could get on board with Pigouvian taxes they could address a lot of real problems while simultaneously reducing the size and scope of regulations and government programs. I am not overly optimistic that this will happen during this administration, but Trump is a huge wildcard so you never know.
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Re: Trumpists begin their attack on America's EV policies.

Thu Mar 30, 2017 5:29 am

golfcart wrote:people just need to trust the leaders that do understand these probems


The leaders also can't understand all the problems. So the leaders need to trust the people that do understand each issue.

Trust is what makes a complex society work. Republicans have won power by destroying trust. Good luck governing.
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golfcart
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Re: Trumpists begin their attack on America's EV policies.

Thu Mar 30, 2017 6:21 am

WetEV wrote:
golfcart wrote:people just need to trust the leaders that do understand these probems


The leaders also can't understand all the problems. So the leaders need to trust the people that do understand each issue.

Trust is what makes a complex society work. Republicans have won power by destroying trust. Good luck governing.


I didn't mean to imply that leaders meant politicians, I meant leaders as subject matter experts in their respective fields... like the IPCC for instance. Politicians make policy, but most are grossly unqualified to make scientific assessments. People aren't gonna trust the experts on some abstract issue if they don't trust the politicians who endorse those experts.

There is plenty of blame to go around in the destruction of trust, but I agree that Republicans have been especially bad in that regard as of late. This has been hashed out on this thread already, there is no need for me to repeat them.

That said, it is not a one way street entirely. The medias biased reporting both in what it chooses to report on and how it reports on them are not doing anything to gain trust. The movement in academia to suppress free speech rather than have open and honest debates doesn't help trust. The democratic party rigging its own nomination process to put forward a seriously flawed candidate with tons of baggage didn't help trust. Shows like the Daily Show and John Oliver that consider mocking and condescending "entertainment" don't help trust. Social media bullies trying to ruin peoples careers (or lives) over one bad statement don't help trust. Physically assaulting people who are peacefully assembling does not help societal trust either. I could go on...

Why do you think polling is so suspect lately? Many people don't trust the people asking the questions or reporting on the answers.

Like I said before, self-righteous indignation is a hell of a drug, but it does little to convince people who disagree with you that they should consider your position. That is the hardest thing for people, myself included, to get through their thick skulls.

I don't claim to understand all the reasons Trump was elected, but something like that doesn't happen in a vacuum. Clearly the existing political parties had not gained the trust of a large portions of Americans... that includes the 10% of Blacks, 30% of Asians and 30% of Hispanics that voted for Trump according to exit polling which you never hear about because the media wants this to be about "racist" and "xenophobic" working class whites only.
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Re: Trumpists begin their attack on America's EV policies.

Thu Mar 30, 2017 8:20 am

golfcart wrote:I don't claim to understand all the reasons Trump was elected, but something like that doesn't happen in a vacuum. Clearly the existing political parties had not gained the trust of a large portions of Americans... that includes the 10% of Blacks, 30% of Asians and 30% of Hispanics that voted for Trump according to exit polling which you never hear about because the media wants this to be about "racist" and "xenophobic" working class whites only.


I went and checked numbers... Yea, a trust issue.

8% of Blacks voted for Trump
27% of Asians voted for Trump
28% of Hispanic voted for Trump

Source Fox News, the other mainstream media.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/electio ... exit-polls

Trump wouldn't be President with these numbers. And not everyone that voted for Trump because they liked him. Mrs. Clinton has a few issues as well, and Trump did a great job in keeping these in the news, and some people vote on specific issues such as abortion. There are some that vote straight party line, some for understandable historic issues. Such as Cubans for Republicans.

There is a substantial racist and xenophobic support for the Donald. I know, as I have relatives that resemble that statement closely. Trump has excited these people, as Trump is openly xenophobic and racist. Not all people that voted for him are, of course, as I've pointed out above.

Exit polls are interesting. For example:

"Q: Do you think Hillary Clinton is qualified to serve as president? Yes = 52%"
"Q: Do you think Donald Trump is qualified to serve as president? Yes = 38%"

So how did Donald Trump win? The voters didn't think him the most qualified.
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Re: Trumpists begin their attack on America's EV policies.

Thu Mar 30, 2017 8:24 am

golfcart wrote:
I didn't mean to imply that leaders meant politicians, I meant leaders as subject matter experts in their respective fields... like the IPCC for instance. Politicians make policy, but most are grossly unqualified to make scientific assessments. People aren't gonna trust the experts on some abstract issue if they don't trust the politicians who endorse those experts.

There is plenty of blame to go around in the destruction of trust, but I agree that Republicans have been especially bad in that regard as of late. This has been hashed out on this thread already, there is no need for me to repeat them.

That said, it is not a one way street entirely. The medias biased reporting both in what it chooses to report on and how it reports on them are not doing anything to gain trust. The movement in academia to suppress free speech rather than have open and honest debates doesn't help trust. The democratic party rigging its own nomination process to put forward a seriously flawed candidate with tons of baggage didn't help trust. Shows like the Daily Show and John Oliver that consider mocking and condescending "entertainment" don't help trust. Social media bullies trying to ruin peoples careers (or lives) over one bad statement don't help trust. Physically assaulting people who are peacefully assembling does not help societal trust either. I could go on...

Why do you think polling is so suspect lately? Many people don't trust the people asking the questions or reporting on the answers.

Like I said before, self-righteous indignation is a hell of a drug, but it does little to convince people who disagree with you that they should consider your position. That is the hardest thing for people, myself included, to get through their thick skulls.

I don't claim to understand all the reasons Trump was elected, but something like that doesn't happen in a vacuum. Clearly the existing political parties had not gained the trust of a large portions of Americans... that includes the 10% of Blacks, 30% of Asians and 30% of Hispanics that voted for Trump according to exit polling which you never hear about because the media wants this to be about "racist" and "xenophobic" working class whites only.


I agree on all points. People have lost trust in the political system, and also in the press. I pretty much assume any politician is lying when their lips are moving, and that any information reported by the press is severely warped in truth or is heavily biased in some fashion. You can easily see it when you look at the same news story covered between CNN, RT, Fox News, and MSNBC. You have to get your news from both sides of the spectrum in order to get any idea as to what the truth might be. Thanks to the segmentation of news into preferred political slices, people are staying inside these echo chambers where they're not exposed to viewpoints outside of their own, and they're increasingly shocked and appalled when they do get exposed to these viewpoints.

Instead of analyzing them, they simply shut down their minds, or openly mock and ridicule the other side instead of trying to understand WHY the other side feels a certain way. This leads to further distrust of the system and those around them. We're experiencing our Two Minutes of Hate from 1984, where everybody gets riled up and angry about some manufactured atrocity instead of looking at what's really going around and what truly matters around them.
Anyhow.. /rant.
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Re: Trumpists begin their attack on America's EV policies.

Thu Mar 30, 2017 8:34 am

WetEV wrote:Exit polls are interesting. For example:

"Q: Do you think Hillary Clinton is qualified to serve as president? Yes = 52%"
"Q: Do you think Donald Trump is qualified to serve as president? Yes = 38%"

So how did Donald Trump win? The voters didn't think him the most qualified.

Maybe the polling process was flawed.
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